2.4 Volumes of CO2??

[johnboy1313]

Let me start by saying this is my first attempt at kegging. According to CO2 charts that I've seen, 2.4 volumes of CO2 is a typical carbonation level for an ale. I've had my keg at 40 degrees for 13 days at 12 PSI. Per the chart, that should be about 2.47 volumes of CO2. I've been trying a small sample for a week or so, just to check how it's going. It's still very flat and doesn't seem to be any more carbed than it was a week ago. It has a slight head and I can taste the CO2 in it, but like I said, it's still really flat. I'm not in any hurry to drink it. I brewed it for a buddy's birthday party and I've still got some time. I really just want to be sure it's going to be OK.

I have no way to gauge if 2.4 volumes of CO2 is actually the target I'm aiming for, for you guys with experience, does that seem like a decent carb level?

Should I bump the PSI up to 15, or just leave it at 12 and give it more time?

Thanks, John

 

[Yooper]

2.4 volumes is fine (that's what mine is!) and your beer should be pretty well carbed by nice. Assuming you're not out of gas, the only other thing I can think of is if your beerline is short and "knocking" the co2 out of suspension on the way to the glass.

 

[weirdboy]

Are you sure the beer in the keg is actually under pressure?

 

[johnboy1313]

When I pull the relief valve, it hisses and then I can hear the gas running into the keg until it balances. If there was no pressure would the beer come out of the tap when opened?

 

[johnboy1313]

2.4 volumes is fine (that's what mine is!) and your beer should be pretty well carbed by nice. Assuming you're not out of gas, the only other thing I can think of is if your beerline is short and "knocking" the co2 out of suspension on the way to the glass.

I've got plenty of CO2. If the CO2 is knocked out of suspension, where does it go? Would I get all foam then? I'm not getting all foam, in fact there's only a little foam. I'm only taking a very small sample at a time, would it make a difference if I took a bigger sample?

 

[Bobby_M]

There's a good chance that your gauge is reading a little higher than it actually is. Try pull the disconnect off the keg, close the tank valve and purge the pressure from the line. Does the needle hit zero exactly? Also, I see a lot of regs with 0-60psi ranged gauges and it's damn near impossible to discern 12 from 14psi.

One other thing to keep in mind is that you won't hit full equilibrium in 13 days, it's more like 20. You would normally sense that it's pretty darn close at 13 though. I'd bump it up about 2psi and wait.

 

[johnboy1313]

I was just thinking, there is more beer in the line itself right now than the amount that I took for a sample. In fact, there is probably at least two, if not three times the volume of my sample in the beer line. Now, I'm going to plead ignorance here again, would the beer in the line carbonate with the beer in the keg? Is it possible that I've just been pulling flat beer out of the line and eventually I will get to the good stuff?

 

[Yooper]

I was just thinking, there is more beer in the line itself right now than the amount that I took for a sample. In fact, there is probably at least two, if not three times the volume of my sample in the beer line. Now, I'm going to plead ignorance here again, would the beer in the line carbonate with the beer in the keg? Is it possible that I've just been pulling flat beer out of the line and eventually I will get to the good stuff?

There isn't that much beer in the line. It looks like a lot, maybe, but 3/16" line is pretty small and I bet it's less than two ounces total.

However, strictly for scientific discovery of course , how about pulling out a tiny sample, discarding that, and then pulling out a glass of about 6 ounces? That way you can sample some good (albeit possibly flat) beer and satisfy our curiousity too!

 

[johnboy1313]

There isn't that much beer in the line. It looks like a lot, maybe, but 3/16" line is pretty small and I bet it's less than two ounces total.

However, strictly for scientific discovery of course , how about pulling out a tiny sample, discarding that, and then pulling out a glass of about 6 ounces? That way you can sample some good (albeit possibly flat) beer and satisfy our curiousity too!

I pulled a half-pint or so and it was basically all foam. Makes me think you were right Yooper. I'm going to get some more line on Monday and see what happens.

 

[day_trippr]

fyi, 3/16" ID beer line holds 1/6th of an ounce per foot...

Cheers!

 

[cervezarara]

Check to be sure you have 3/16" ID tubing. Some systems have 1/4" tubing, and that doesn't have as much resistance as 3/16". 3/16" should give about 2 - 2.7 lbs resistance per foot. You also have to consider the height of your taps above the center of the keg.
You need to have as much or more total resistance in your beer lines as the pressure in the beer to keep CO2 in the beer. So, if your taps are level with your keg at 12 psi, you neeed 6 ft. beeer lines with 3/16" ID, minimum, to balance your system. If your taps are 2 ft above the center of the keg, you can get by with 5 ft. lines.

I also check the temperature of the beer. I had my thermostat set at 40, but the beer temp was actually 44. This has to do with placement of the thermocouple and the overshoot of the controller. I now have my controller at 37, and beer temp is 40. Warmer beer will not hold as much CO2 (at 44, you would need closer to 14psi for same carbonation.)

You probably already know, but you need to open the tap fully. If you only open it half way, you may have excessive foaming, even with a balanced system.

 

[johnboy1313]

Check to be sure you have 3/16" ID tubing. Some systems have 1/4" tubing, and that doesn't have as much resistance as 3/16". 3/16" should give about 2 - 2.7 lbs resistance per foot. You also have to consider the height of your taps above the center of the keg.
You need to have as much or more total resistance in your beer lines as the pressure in the beer to keep CO2 in the beer. So, if your taps are level with your keg at 12 psi, you neeed 6 ft. beeer lines with 3/16" ID, minimum, to balance your system. If your taps are 2 ft above the center of the keg, you can get by with 5 ft. lines.

I also check the temperature of the beer. I had my thermostat set at 40, but the beer temp was actually 44. This has to do with placement of the thermocouple and the overshoot of the controller. I now have my controller at 37, and beer temp is 40. Warmer beer will not hold as much CO2 (at 44, you would need closer to 14psi for same carbonation.)

You probably already know, but you need to open the tap fully. If you only open it half way, you may have excessive foaming, even with a balanced system.

I bumped the pressure up to 14 and I'll get some extra line tomorrow.

 

[autobaun70]

you should get pretty good system balance if you run 6' of 3/16" line. I can typically carb a normal pale ale with it set to 13 PSI in about 5 days. The only thing I do is to give it a good 30 second shake right after I hook it up to the gas. If I am not planning on drinking it for a while I just hook it up. One thing that does help is if you can cold crash before you keg the beer, that will speed the process up greatly as CO2 is more easily absorbed into cold beer.

I ferment in a converted fridge that sits next to my kegerator. I just drop the temp down to about 40 degrees a few days before I empty the fermenters.

 

[johnboy1313]

I ferment in a converted fridge that sits next to my kegerator. I just drop the temp down to about 40 degrees a few days before I empty the fermenters.

Exactly what I did. First time kegging, also my first time using a fermentation chamber with an eBay temp controller. The beer tastes amazing other than it's flat. Here's to hoping the longer line fixes things.

 

[johnboy1313]

Just an update. I bumped the regulator up to 15lbs for a couple days afterward the beer was fine. For what it's worth, five feet of 1/4 inch line is giving me absolutely no trouble. The party never happened so I've pretty much killed the whole thing by myself.