Historical Beers 1880 Whitbread Porter

[kevin58]

Recipe Type

All Grain

Yeast

English Ale (Whitelabs #WLP002)

Yeast Starter

1.0 LIter

Batch Size (Gallons)

6

Original Gravity

1.053

Final Gravity

1.010

Boiling Time (Minutes)

60

IBU

34.4

Color

34 SRM

Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)

14 Days. 66F until day 12 when raised to 72F

Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)

none

Tasting Notes

Roast and chocolate notes. Malt forward but only slightly sweet. Only a hint of hop bitterness. Silky smooth finish.

9 lbs Pale Malt
1 lb 12 oz Brown Malt
12 oz Black Malt (not patent)
2 oz East Kent Goldings (6.4%) boil 60 minutes

1 Liter starter using WLP002 English Ale Yeast

Mashed at 152 for 60 minutes.

My intent was to brew a traditional, English Porter as a starting point to build up a modern, robust porter. However upon first taste I don't think I want to change this recipe much if any. The recipe is one of Ron Pattinson's historic recreations based on Whitbread brewing logs.

The color is a rich, dark chocolate. The head is dark caramel brown. The aroma is roasty and coffee-like. The flavor is much the same, roasty, coffee and chocolaty. It is has a slight sweetness but not too much. There is a hint of hop bitterness but again, not too much. I think I hit the Goldilocks zone with this one. And as soon as I finished the first pint I immediately wanted another.

I've attached the Beersmith .bsmx file for anyone interested.

 

[pigroaster]

9 lbs Pale Malt
1 lb 12 oz Brown Malt
12 oz Black Malt (not patent)
2 oz East Kent Goldings (6.4%) boil 60 minutes

1 Liter starter using WLP002 English Ale Yeast

Mashed at 152 for 60 minutes.

My intent was to brew a traditional, English Porter as a starting point to build up a modern, robust porter. However upon first taste I don't think I want to change this recipe much if any. The recipe is one of Ron Pattinson's historic recreations based on Whitbread brewing logs.

The color is a rich, dark chocolate. The head is dark caramel brown. The aroma is roasty and coffee-like. The flavor is much the same, roasty, coffee and chocolaty. It is has a slight sweetness but not too much. There is a hint of hop bitterness but again, not too much. I think I hit the Goldilocks zone with this one. And as soon as I finished the first pint I immediately wanted another.

I've attached the Beersmith .bsmx file for anyone interested.

Thanks for posting this winner. I will put it on my to do brew list.

 

[AkTom]

Now I’m thirsty.

 

[kevin58]

After drinking this over the past couple of days I've decided it needs something more. While it is a smooth drinker and very quaff-able I think I would like more richness in the mouthfeel. I'm going to make it again and mash higher to see what that gets me. Then if it's still not enough I will play around with the grist to see if I can make it a bit bolder.

 

[Shenanigans]

Looks good, thanks for sharing.
Maybe there's a dash of pale crystal malt missing?
That's hat Fullers add to their excellent brown porter.

I would like to give it a go but I might have a problem accessing English black malt.
Hoever I did buy a pound of Belgian black malt from Castle brewing a few years ago.
Could I use that?

https://www.castlemalting.com/Castl...ficationID=185&CropYear=2018&Language=English

 

[kevin58]

No crystal. The recipe is just as published by Ron Pattinson and the Whitbread brew logs from 1880.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Remember that they would almost certainly have been using Chevalier malt at this time, which is available from Crisp but if you can't get it then a good English pale malt with a bit of crystal is a reasonable hack.

I do enjoy these Victorian porters, but on my to-do list is to brew the same beer twice - save a third of the first one and Brett-C it, then blend 2:1 with fresh beer from the second brew. Just Brett on its own is a bit much, but I reckon 2:1 fresh:Brett would be just about right. It might help give you the interest you're looking for, as well as being historically credible.

 

[Miraculix]

Remember that they would almost certainly have been using Chevalier malt at this time, which is available from Crisp but if you can't get it then a good English pale malt with a bit of crystal is a reasonable hack.

I do enjoy these Victorian porters, but on my to-do list is to brew the same beer twice - save a third of the first one and Brett-C it, then blend 2:1 with fresh beer from the second brew. Just Brett on its own is a bit much, but I reckon 2:1 fresh:Brett would be just about right. It might help give you the interest you're looking for, as well as being historically credible.

Just as a side note, have you seen that greene king has released two chevallier based ales? Waitrose has them, one is a five percent ale and the other one is stronger. I bought the five percent bottle but haven't tried it yet.

I recently tried the Greene king xxx dark mild and it was extremely good, since then i get a bit excited when I see something special from them.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Are they a second release of the Heritage ones they did a year ago? The third one was an Ernest-based one a few months ago, which is stretching the "heritage" thing a bit but is just about plausible.

Suffolk Strong notwithstanding, that kind of thing has always felt like craftwashing coming from Greene King, whereas Marstons seem to be a bit more real on that front.

 

[kevin58]

Remember that they would almost certainly have been using Chevalier malt at this time, which is available from Crisp but if you can't get it then a good English pale malt with a bit of crystal is a reasonable hack.

I do enjoy these Victorian porters, but on my to-do list is to brew the same beer twice - save a third of the first one and Brett-C it, then blend 2:1 with fresh beer from the second brew. Just Brett on its own is a bit much, but I reckon 2:1 fresh:Brett would be just about right. It might help give you the interest you're looking for, as well as being historically credible.

You're thinking along the same lines as me. Except my plan is to age the first Brett-C beer for up to a year in oak then brew the second and mix. Goose Island recently did a limited run 19th century London Porter blended like this called Obadiah Poundage... a collaboration with Ron Pattinson and London brewer, Derick Prentice.

 

[Miraculix]

Are they a second release of the Heritage ones they did a year ago? The third one was an Ernest-based one a few months ago, which is stretching the "heritage" thing a bit but is just about plausible.

Suffolk Strong notwithstanding, that kind of thing has always felt like craftwashing coming from Greene King, whereas Marstons seem to be a bit more real on that front.

I don't know, I wasn't aware of them last year...

 

[Miraculix]

You're thinking along the same lines as me. Except my plan is to age the first Brett-C beer for up to a year in oak then brew the second and mix. Goose Island recently did a limited run 19th century London Porter blended like this called Obadiah Poundage... a collaboration with Ron Pattinson and London brewer, Derick Prentice.

Oh, I'd love to try that.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

Ron has said that some of the Obadiah Poundage will be making its way to London, presumably the Goose tap in Shoreditch.

The GK beers were in Tesco last year - I seem to remember my verdict was "not bad for GK" without racing back to them, but they were periodically discounted to £3.50 for two and at that kind of price I'd buy them again if I was wanting some beer in Tesco and nothing else caught my eye.

 

[cyberbackpacker]

I tried to buy some Obadiah Poundage from the Goose tap in Chicago, but it was sold out by the time I got there-- really disappointed I missed getting to try it!

 

[Miraculix]

Are they a second release of the Heritage ones they did a year ago? The third one was an Ernest-based one a few months ago, which is stretching the "heritage" thing a bit but is just about plausible.

Suffolk Strong notwithstanding, that kind of thing has always felt like craftwashing coming from Greene King, whereas Marstons seem to be a bit more real on that front.

Just to give a little update on the Greene King Heritage Chevallier Ale, don't bother with it, it is not good. It is carbonated like a lager, very fizzie, much too fizzie and the Chevallier does not come through. It is a bit too sweet for my liking, but for southern standards not as sweet as some others and it does not have a strong character in any way.

 

[Miraculix]

Another update, had a headache this morning from just one bottle, but this could also only me running short on sleep atm.

 

[OpenSights]

Upcoming brew schedule just got longer!

1. Yooper’s oatmeal stout (competition)
2. Ginger beer (based off of a 1800 recipe)
3. Mystery brown (no clue what’s in the grain bill)
4. 1880 whitbread porter (only because all the other grains have been milled already.)

 

[kevin58]

I brewed the 1880 Whitbread Porter again adding 1lb of roasted barley. My first sampling came after it had been in the keg about 2 weeks and at that point it had an acrid character that I didn't care for but after conditioning for two months it is so good I don't know which of the two versions is my favorite.

The second version with the roasted barley has a mahogany colored head and the beer it darker than the first and it still has a bit of bite from the extra roasted malt but it is not nearly as pronounced as it was early on.

 

[pigroaster]

This recipe is spot on. Condition keg for a month and wait for a taste explosion. So good, so smooth... Do it now before the fall darker beer season starts!!

 

[Shenanigans]

This recipe is spot on. Condition keg for a month and wait for a taste explosion. So good, so smooth... Do it now before the fall darker beer season starts!!

I'm very tempted to give it a go on the weekend.
I don't have any 002/1968 though.
But I do have wlp005, London III, 1098, M36 and M42 .

 

[Robert65]

I've brewed Ron's 1880 Whitbread porter and fermented with S-04. It was one of my favorite beers I've done in nearly 30 years of brewing.

 

[Miraculix]

I've brewed Ron's 1880 Whitbread porter and fermented with S-04. It was one of my favorite beers I've done in nearly 30 years of brewing.

I looooooove 04 in dark beers. It's soooooo good, honestly.

 

[pigroaster]

Thanks for posting this winner. I will put it on my to do brew list.

and it is a winner!

 

[DBhomebrew]

I brewed the 1880 Whitbread Porter again adding 1lb of roasted barley. My first sampling came after it had been in the keg about 2 weeks and at that point it had an acrid character that I didn't care for but after conditioning for two months it is so good I don't know which of the two versions is my favorite.

The second version with the roasted barley has a mahogany colored head and the beer it darker than the first and it still has a bit of bite from the extra roasted malt but it is not nearly as pronounced as it was early on.

I'm thinking of brewing a porter this weekend. Any updates on this one?

 

[duncan_disorderly]

I like the suggestion made above of adding some crystal malt to compensate for the difference in pale malt and Chevallier malt. I once drank a beer made from 100% Chevallier and Goldings hops and I had to check with the brewer that he didn't add crystal malt, as it looked and tasted like it contained crystal.

Having brewed a lot of porters over the years I have found I like some crystal. But if you prefer porters without it then obviously do what suits your taste.

What I am not sure about is how to emulate the brown malt used back in the 18th and 19th centuries. Use less? Use some amber malt? The popularity of porter gradually faded to nothing, after the complete overhaul of porter when diastatic brown malt was replaced by adding some black malt to mostly pale malt. Brown malt must have changed, but how different is modern brown malt?

I've brewed the Fullers porter recipe several times and that combination of pale, brown, crystal and chocolate, from a brewery that has been making porters since 1845, works really well. It has likely been adjusted over the years to compensate for changes in available malts.

How much effect did Brett have? Once casks were lined with tar, did Brett still impact the beer? And when was that? I guess at one time stale and mild ale was mixed to order at the bar, so some people preferred a mild ale while others preferred 'stale'. So use Brett if you want, or not. Just thinking out loud.

The recipe in the OP states black malt (not black patent malt). I've always thought they are the same thing, I've not noticed two different products on sale here in the UK? What's the difference?

 

[Shenanigans]

Here's an interesting discussion about the different types of black malt and the 4th post has a link to a BYO article.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/black-patent-vs-black-malt.3134/
Just some home brewer's opinions; take it as you like

With regards to emulation old brown malt maybe adding some smoked malt to the grain bill would help?
I have brewed the CYBI clone attempt of Meantime Porter a few times which has about 500g smoked malt and loved it.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/threads/can-you-brew-it-recipe-for-meantime-porter.239374/

I did make a few changes though; mainly WLP007 instead of Notti and Belgian black malt instead of Black Patent.
I have 2kg of Fawcett's black malt now so might brew up another batch soon using that.

 

[Miraculix]

I don't understand where this obsession for smoked malt comes from when people recreate historic recipes. I'm pretty sure that they knew how to keep the smoke away from the malt back in the day.

 

[Shenanigans]

I don't understand where this obsession for smoked malt comes from when people recreate historic recipes. I'm pretty sure that they knew how to keep the smoke away from the malt back in the day.

I don't know; maybe it's one of these home brew things that just developed like adding peated malt to a Wee Heavy.
Or the smoke idea came from the romantic idea of boiling the wort over an open wood or coal fire.
I'm sure there were also instances for whatever reason they failed to keep the smoke away from the malt by mistake and just rolled with it.

Anyway I enjoyed what it added the the porter I brewed.

 

[DBhomebrew]

I've enjoyed a smoked porter or three. Even one that I've brewed. But, really, I asked Kevin if he had any updates because that's the question I have. Brewing with or emulating Chevalier, emulating historical brown, difference of browns across maltsters, differences between US black and UK black patent, roasted barley, etc. Great points of conversation. But has anyone brewed both of Kevin's recipes here? v1.0 vs v1.1? How about 1.2 or 2.0? @kevin58?

 

[Peebee]

... The recipe in the OP states black malt (not black patent malt). I've always thought they are the same thing, I've not noticed two different products on sale here in the UK? What's the difference?

You were right first time. I don't know when the patents expired, but it's a lot longer ago than the point which you have to worry about it! It's just a name that has stuck for some reason. It was always called "Patent Black" in Boots the Chemist (UK) 50 years ago.

But there is difference 'tween different manufacturers. The "Simpson's" stuff we have has a colour of 1550-1900EBC which must be quite different to Crisp's at 1100-1350EBC.

And the European husk-or-huskless stuff is different again?

As yet, I've no preference. I just use a few grams for colour.