1 Trillion dollar bailout

[Brandon O]

anyone see the news this morning? The senate is supposed to have something to vote on today.

 

[Evan!]

Just open the taps.

Man, along those lines, I'm just gonna set up a f*cking printing press in my basement and print money to bail out my friends every time they lose money. I mean, hell, if you can just keep printing money, then what's the big deal over trillion dollar buyouts. Just print more!

What could go wrong?

 

[Laurel]

Glad we got our interest rate locked in at 5.5%!

 

[Evan!]

Glad we got our interest rate locked in at 5.5%!

yeah, we're at 6.

unfortunately, none of this helps my retirement fund...

 

[Laurel]

yeah, we're at 6.

unfortunately, none of this helps my retirement fund...

It was 6% 2 days before we locked it in, 5.85% the day before, the day we locked we figured that we should because the fed was meeting concerning interest rates on bank loans, we locked at 5.5%, and that afternoon, it was back up at 6%.

 

[IrregularPulse]

Just was in the break room grabbin some coffee and saw Mr. George on the tube announcing the Bail out.

I am un-involved in politics and basically the ways of the world so don't really understand what it means for everything/everyone. All I understand is that I get to help the government buy a bunch of mortgages back from people who took out loans they couldn't afford and the banks that gave them to them knowing they couldn't afford them. Guess It's time to start showing an interest in this sort of thing since I'm getting old and have a youngen to look after.

 

[Evan!]

Just was in the break room grabbin some coffee and saw Mr. George on the tube announcing the Bail out.

I am un-involved in politics and basically the ways of the world so don't really understand what it means for everything/everyone. All I understand is that I get to help the government buy a bunch of mortgages back from people who took out loans they couldn't afford and the banks that gave them to them knowing they couldn't afford them. Guess It's time to start showing an interest in this sort of thing since I'm getting old and have a youngen to look after.

What it really means is: the worst economic panic since WWII. Inflation on a massive scale. Interest rates get raised to counter inflation. You end up paying 14% interest if you want to buy a house. Or, you just don't get a loan because you don't have a credit score over 800. Job security, unless you work for f*ckin KBR or Blackwater, will be precarious for a good while.

Essentially, it's really, really bad news.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Just was in the break room grabbin some coffee and saw Mr. George on the tube announcing the Bail out.

I am un-involved in politics and basically the ways of the world so don't really understand what it means for everything/everyone. All I understand is that I get to help the government buy a bunch of mortgages back from people who took out loans they couldn't afford and the banks that gave them to them knowing they couldn't afford them. Guess It's time to start showing an interest in this sort of thing since I'm getting old and have a youngen to look after.

One of the best quotes I've heard about this situation is, "We privatize profits, and socialize losses."

So after the government is done bailing out the last corporation with taxpayer money, are they finally going to offer some temporary loans to citizens having a hard time paying their mortgage? Seems like the government always has a top->down approach to this kind of situation instead of a bottom->up. When it comes to individuals, they spout of some BS line about personal responsibility and the free market, but when it comes to giant corporations the story changes. Socialism at the corporate level is ok???

And why do the ********* executives get their golden parachute as everyone's investments go to sh$t. They made risky business decisions and it has finally caught up with them...they made their bed and they should lay in it. They shouldn't get a nice going a way present, they should get a cardboard box to pack the sh$t in like everyone else and an extra kick in the a$$ for leading their company to bankruptcy.

 

[Brandon O]

I haven't put money in my retirement in over a year, I make more money in 3% savings account for the time being.

 

[user 574]

I haven't put money in my retirement in over a year, I make more money in 3% savings account for the time being.

Yea but at your age now is the time to stay the course. Prices are low...

 

[STAD]

One of the best quotes I've heard about this situation is, "We privatize profits, and socialize losses."

So after the government is done bailing out the last corporation with taxpayer money, are they finally going to offer some temporary loans to citizens having a hard time paying their mortgage? Seems like the government always has a top->down approach to this kind of situation instead of a bottom->up. When it comes to individuals, they spout of some BS line about personal responsibility and the free market, but when it comes to giant corporations the story changes. Socialism at the corporate level is ok???

And why do the ********* executives get their golden parachute as everyone's investments go to sh$t. They made risky business decisions and it has finally caught up with them...they made their bed and they should lay in it. They shouldn't get a nice going a way present, they should get a cardboard box to pack the sh$t in like everyone else and an extra kick in the a$$ for leading their company to bankruptcy.

I agree. It is incredibly sad that they are bailing out the corporations and sh*tting on the average person. Corporations are their own entity and should be held responsible for their actions, just like a person. The only problem is... the government steps in because their mindset is "if we don't, think of the terrible economic impact it will have." This is true statement. If the government doesn't step in (like they didn't when people lost their homes on a great scale), then there will be a terrible economic impact (like there is currently).

 

[bob1852]

Essentially, it's really, really bad news.

here's the scary thing:

look at the economy:
unequal distribution of wealth - check
excessive speculation keeping stock market artificially high - check
very prosperous decade previously - check
Presidential administration favoring business - check
Huge tax cuts - check
Stock market crash - check
Partial recovery - check
Fed creating money out of thin air - check

Do you think I'm talking about 2008? Yes - but also all these things that are happening now happened in 1929 - right before the GREAT DEPRESSION. Better strap the chicken coops to the car and head west folks...

 

[BigKahuna]

The part that I really don't like is that the Federal Gub-Ment now has an 80% stake in the single largest insurance company in the country. How the hell is that a good thing?

unequal distribution of wealth - check

I'll bet you a Beer that you make more than me, so if you're uncomfortable about the unequal distribution of wealth...I'll PM you a routing number, and you can send me 1/2 of the difference between your income and mine.

 

[bob1852]

One of the best quotes I've heard about this situation is, "We privatize profits, and socialize losses."

And another one: "Capitalism won't fail, because Socialism won't allow it to."

 

[bob1852]

The part that I really don't like is that the Federal Gub-Ment now has an 80% stake in the single largest insurance company in the country. How the hell is that a good thing?

I think it's the largest in the world, isn't it?

 

[BierMuncher]

What it really means is: the worst economic panic since WWII. Inflation on a massive scale. Interest rates get raised to counter inflation. You end up paying 14% interest if you want to buy a house. Or, you just don't get a loan because you don't have a credit score over 800. Job security, unless you work for f*ckin KBR or Blackwater, will be precarious for a good while.

Essentially, it's really, really bad news.

Should be the opposite.

Major financials getting these high risk assets off of their books, frees up bank capital to lend. Credit loosens. Not to the extent that got us into this mess.

Remember that this is real estate the the gov't is "buying".
The cycle should be:

• Gov't assumes debt and risk on bad mortgage assets.
• Banks, now free of this risk, have more capital to lend.
• Consumers now have more buying power because credit loosens.
• Consumer confidence recovers.
• Housing values recover with stronger confidence and buying power.
• Gov't eventually unloads these real estate holdings...perhaps even at a gain.

This of course...if everything works perfectly.

 

[Evan!]

Should be the opposite.

Major financials getting these high risk assets off of their books, frees up bank capital to lend. Credit loosens. Not to the extent that got us into this mess.

Remember that this is real estate the the gov't is "buying".
The cycle should be:

• Gov't assumes debt and risk on bad mortgage assets.
• Banks, now free of this risk, have more capital to lend.
• Consumers now have more buying power because credit loosens.
• Consumer confidence recovers.
• Housing values recover with stronger confidence and buying power.
• Gov't eventually unloads these real estate holdings...perhaps even at a gain.

This of course...if everything works perfectly.

Of course, you don't mention where the money to bail out these companies comes from. It's from taxpayers (yay, debt) and from the treasury presses. Print more money, devalue the dollar. We get screwed because the cash in my pocket is now worth less. Raise interest rates to counter inflation, we also get screwed.

You can't just take this part out of the equation.

 

[BigKahuna]

You can't just take this part out of the equation.

Not only shouldn't you take it out of the equation...it's the 800# Gorilla of the equation. That's MY MONEY they are spending.

 

[Evan!]

Not only shouldn't you take it out of the equation...it's the 800# Gorilla of the equation. That's MY MONEY they are spending.

My point exactly. Biermuncher's little timeline is a bit like...

 

[Mirage]

What I don't know is where this money is coming from. I imagine they are just gonna put it on the Iraq/Afghanistan government credit card. Might as well send my taxes to China...

 

[BigKahuna]

Biermuncher's little timeline is a bit like...

I guess that my thought is:
In a free market system (I'm a BIG FAN) you have to let business have the freedom to FAIL! The Gub-Ment is there to provide all of the opportunities possible, but I do NOT pay taxes so the congress can give false assurance to private or public companies.

I also think that this is just another step toward BIG Government. What the hell...Now the Nannieistic state also provides us with our insurance, AND our Lending? Where is that a good idea?....NOT HERE!

 

[BigKahuna]

What I don't know is where this money is coming from.

Is that a serious question?

Same place as any government gets it's money...FROM US!

 

[bob1852]

Same place as any government gets it's money...FROM US!

or in this case from Helicopter Benny and his magic printing press.

Since this is an international board (well, and an international economy), I'm curious as to what our friends from abroad think about this mess.

 

[Mirage]

Is that a serious question?

Same place as any government gets it's money...FROM US!

It was more of rhetorical question. I seriously doubt that the republicans are going to raise taxes to pay for this. Most of the money for such things comes from the government borrowing money and adding to the debt.

 

[Evan!]

It was more of rhetorical question. I seriously doubt that the republicans are going to raise taxes to pay for this. Most of the money for such things comes from the government borrowing money and adding to the debt.

or just turning on the printing presses and devaluing the dollar.

 

[Evan!]

I guess that my thought is:
In a free market system (I'm a BIG FAN) you have to let business have the freedom to FAIL! The Gub-Ment is there to provide all of the opportunities possible, but I do NOT pay taxes so the congress can give false assurance to private or public companies.

I also think that this is just another step toward BIG Government. What the hell...Now the Nannieistic state also provides us with our insurance, AND our Lending? Where is that a good idea?....NOT HERE!

I'm in complete agreement. If you're going to deregulate the financial sector, you've got to deregulate it all the way.

Here's some good words from Barr...

 

[BigKahuna]

or just turning on the printing presses and devaluing the dollar.

Most likely the case....Unfortunately.

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Here's a question: Our tax dollars are buying an 80% stake in AIG for and $85bn loan which will be repayed at a rate of 11%. So when they pay that back, do we all get a stimulus check for 11% over what we paid for the bailout?

 

[BigKahuna]

Here's a question: Our tax dollars are buying an 80% stake in AIG for and $85bn loan which will be repayed at a rate of 11%. So when they pay that back, do we all get a stimulus check for 11% over what we paid for the bailout?

And the gains that would be paid to a typical stock holder with 80% share? How about tax? What is going to happen to the tax dollars that would have been paid by that company before the government bought it?

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

And another one: "Capitalism won't fail, because Socialism won't allow it to."

Here's another good one: "Capitalism without failure is like Religion without HELL."

 

[EvilTOJ]

Do you think I'm talking about 2008? Yes - but also all these things that are happening now happened in 1929 - right before the GREAT DEPRESSION. Better strap the chicken coops to the car and head west folks...

If you people are heading west, go to California. Stay the hell away from here! It rains a lot and it's full of smug, filthy hippies.

 

[Laughing_Gnome_Invisible]

If you people are heading west, go to California. Stay the hell away from here! It rains a lot and it's full of smug, filthy hippies.

Yeah, damn those liberals and their pot smoking Bill Clinton that caused all this mess in the first place! We are doomed! Doomed I tells ya!

 

[TwoHeadsBrewing]

Yeah, damn those liberals and their pot smoking Bill Clinton that caused all this mess in the first place! We are doomed! Doomed I tells ya!

We may be doomed, but come out to CA and smoke all your troubles away! Provided that you have a license for medical MJ!

 

[BierMuncher]

...We get screwed because the cash in my pocket is now worth less....

You think the cash in your pocket is worth less because of this?

Think about what that $1.00 bill in your pocket is right now.

That $1.00 came from your employer who:

• Uses a line of credit to buy supplies, pay overhead and make payroll.
• Relies on his suppliers who also use a line of credit to buy raw materials, pay overhead and make payroll so they can deliver goods to your business.
• Counts on customers (who maybe work for one of your suppliers) to come in on weekends and spend their payroll.
• Turns around and redistributes his earnings by spending in the local economy and paying employees who also spend in the local economy...a local economy that is driven daily by lines of credit.
• Has a vision that new innovations from young, educated talent who got through school using a line of credit might make his business more robust and adaptable for the future.

You close all of those lines of credit that drive these activities, (which trust me as someone who is in the industry…is a very real possibility right now), and your $1.00 is now worth about 20 cents.

Now…try to take that 20 cents and do something with it.

• Your favorite restaurant…closed.
• Your local pub…closed.
• The car dealership…closed. (How many people do you know pay cash for a new car?)
• The partially constructed mall…deserted.

Is this starting to sound familiar?

No…if you think that the Feds buying up distressed real estate is going to be an inconvenience, just consider the alternative when banks say:

• We’re out of the student loan business.
• We no longer offer auto loans.
• Your business line of credit is temporarily suspended.
• You will need 50% down for a new home.

The banks have already stopped lending to each other and are precariously close to pulling the trigger on all lending in order to protect their cash assets.

Do try and remember one thing. This is not a junk bond bail out. This is real property, bought at distressed prices, that will appreciate over time.

 

[Dr Vorlauf]

The fact that the government forced mortgage companies to make loans to those who did not qualify is infuriating.

Even worse that the inflation that we are seeing now is what I see in my business ( call it a leading indicator industry ). I have seen prices go up on some materials by 400 % since April. I wonder what that is going to do to the price that the consumer will ultimately pay?

 

[Boerderij_Kabouter]

I haven't read the thread, but I was emailed the solution by some guy:

A BETTER PLAN

A friend of mine who is a retired USAF ex fighter pilot sent this to me.He makes total sense so let's petition the loonies in Congress to seriously consider it!

I'm against the $85,000,000,000.00 bailout of AIG.

Instead, I'm in favor of giving $85,000,000,000 to America in a "We Deserve It Dividend."

To make the math simple, let's assume there are 200,000,000 bonafide U.S. Citizens 18+.

Our population is about 301,000,000 +/- counting every man, woman and child. So 200,000,000 might be a fair stab at adults 18 and up.

So divide 200 million adults 18+ into $85 billon that equals $425,000.00.

My plan is to give $425,000 to every person 18+ as a We Deserve It Dividend.

Of course, it would NOT be tax free.

So let's assume a tax rate of 30%.

Every individual 18+ has to pay $127,500.00 in taxes.

That sends $25,500,000,000 right back to Uncle Sam.

But it means that every adult 18+ has $297,500.00 in their pocket.

A husband and wife have $595,000.00.

What would you do with $297,500.00 to $595,000.00 in your family?

Pay off your mortgage - housing crisis solved.

Repay college loans - what a great boost to new grads Put away money for college - it'll be there Save in a bank - create money to loan to entrepreneurs.

Buy a new car - create jobs Invest in the market - capital drives growth

Pay for your parent's medical insurance - health care improves

Enable Deadbeat Dads to come clean - or else. Remember this is for every adult U S Citizen 18+ including the folks who lost their jobs at Lehmann Brothers and every other company that is cutting back. And of course, for those serving in our Armed Forces.

If we're going to re-distribute wealth let's really do it...instead of trickling out a puny $1000.00 ( "vote buy" ) economic incentive that is being proposed by one of our candidates for President.

If we're going to do an $85 billion bailout, let's bail out every adult U S Citizen 18+!

As for AIG - liquidate it.

Sell off its parts.

Let American General go back to being American General.

Sell off the real estate.

Let the private sector bargain hunters cut it up and clean it up.

Here's my rationale. We deserve it and AIG doesn't.

Sure it's a crazy idea that can "never work."

But can you imagine the Coast-To-Coast Block Party!

How do you spell Economic Boom?

I trust my fellow adult Americans to know how to use the $85 Billion We Deserve It Dividend more than I do the geniuses at AIG or in Washington, DC.

And remember, the plan only really costs $59.5 Billion because $25.5 Billion is returned instantly in taxes to Uncle Sam.

And if you are so inclined, send a copy of this to your Congressmen and Senators in Washington!
=============

 

[jspence1]

isn't this the way to raise the price of bread to $3000

 

[ChshreCat]

What's most annoying is that the bailout is going to bail out the rich. The money will go to the bankers to buy out the loans they never should have given people. So the rich will stay rich. But all the poor schmucks who can't make their payments will still get foreclosed. But, it'll be the government that forecloses on them. So you have poor families being thrown out on the street so that the top 1% (Dubya and his friends) can keep their lifestyle.

 

[ohiobrewtus]

or just turning on the printing presses and devaluing the dollar.

THIS is the 800# gorilla. You think the dollar is weak now? Wait 12 months and see where it is.

 

[KingBrianI]

What's most annoying is that the bailout is going to bail out the rich. The money will go to the bankers to buy out the loans they never should have given people. So the rich will stay rich. But all the poor schmucks who can't make their payments will still get foreclosed. But, it'll be the government that forecloses on them. So you have poor families being thrown out on the street so that the top 1% (Dubya and his friends) can keep their lifestyle.

interesting viewpoint. i choose to think that the idiots who took loans they shouldn't have are getting what they deserve. maybe the escalade with the 22s was a bad idea too. and the $1500 stereo system you put in it. the fact is, most of the people having their house foreclosed are idiots and need to have this slap in the face to bring them back to reality. it's time people start living within their means again.