Help needed with choosing a right recipe (XXS = XXtra Strong)

Ladies and gentlemen,
My best friend is turning 40 on Nov, 4.

I must make a killer beer - not for the party, but as a present to be relished away from other people's eyes.
I've brewed since last summer and feel somewhat confident I can handle it but of course my recipe database is quite limited and I simply don't know what to brew for him, except that it has to be extra extra strong. Let's say I hope to brew something in the neighborhood of 15% abv but the more the better.

OK as I don't know what style of beer I want, let me tell you what I want to see in this brew.

This special beer may not be sweet - not even a hint of sweetness and/or fruitiness, so out go all Belgians. At the same time it must have some body however without too much maltiness (so barleywines are out, too). It might be bready but not too malty, as sweetness is an absolute taboo.

He loves stouts - before he tried my stout he used to think Guinness was the best beer in creation
He loved a few IPAs he tasted but I am not particularly happy to brew IPA as I have very limited access to hops. Saaz and Cascade is more or less all I have in reasonable quantities, plus some local Chinese hops used for domestic lagers (they might be interesting but not known to you).
He didn't really enjoy reds because the reds he tried were bit too malty to his taste.
APA with a bit more hops than the regular recipe calls for would be a good choice but afaik APA does not get to the desired strength.
And yes, the beer must be _just_ beer, i.e., no coffee/cocoa/vanilla/juices/pumpkins. Some coriander, black/pink pepper, star anise OK though but that is it.

I can procure many different malts except probably rye and Maris Otter. I can _not_ get decent wood chips.

Yeasts I have in smackpacks and on slants:
WY1388 | WY1318 | WY1272
WY3463 | WY1084 | WY1217
WY3711 | WY1728 |
WY1214 |
OYL-057 |

Plus of course dryed US04 and 05, and Nottingham, plus I can probably find wine or champagne yeast if the high alcohol level demands it.

The beer will be bottled. It should be in drinkable condition by November. However as I will make a 7-8 gallon batch this will afford me about 50 0.5L bottles, and I want it to have long storage life, so he could still enjoy it a few years later.

I searched the forum for Extra Strong but most of the results were irrelevant.
Please guys help me and share some recipes.
Thanks a lot!

IMO, you should go for a strong Belgian if you are wanting +10%abv with that variety of strains. Personally, I'd do a farmhouse-style Belgian strong ale with WY3711 and Omega Hothead combined. Or anything else with 3711. Its very high attenuation will keep it dry & drinkable while also upping the %abv. IMO, anything that gets to 10% or more, the ENTIRE FOCUS of the beer should be keeping everything dry and drinkable instead of a fusel alcohol bomb. Either that, or a stout that had enough sweetness to it to cover it up.

Definitely gonna need some simple sugar and id recommend step feeding the yeast. Even with a huge starter, tossing the yeast(s) into a +1.100 OG straight from the start is not a good idea. I also think using more than 1 strain will result in better attenuation too, at least IME

edit: how does he love stouts, but finds reds "too malty"?

m00ps said:

IMO, you should go for a strong Belgian...... how does he love stouts, but finds reds "too malty"?

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Thanks for replying!
I thought about strong Belgs but I feared they might be still on sweety/fruity side, even with this much alcohol. I have no experience to challenge your words, this is just what I think.
Yeast - sure. I _always_ make starters, and I'm pretty well equipped for managing yeast well.
I said he loved Guinness until he had a sip of my stout
Not sure how he forgives stouts what he doesn't forgive the reds - might be the roasty taste balances maltiness off, or maybe it is some slight sourness that makes magic. He doesn't like porters, either. Doesn't "hate", but doesn't care for porters at all!
Would you mind sharing your strong Belg recipe, by the way? I love Belgs, I might as well make some for myself.

Here's my best shot at one. It usually gets a bit over 10%abv but is very smooth, even while it is young, because of the saison yeast
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=573839

A wheatwine comes to mind here. A good example that comes to mind would be here:
https://www.shortsbrewing.com/beers/anniversary-ale/

I know you said that fruit was out but with the bitter/citrus from this is definitely anything but sweet.

Here's a stout I've had my eye on for years:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=21088

I know you said no Rye, but you could just leave it out, and add some Black Patent.

You DID say XX Strong

To me, you have conflicting information. I find Belgians to be pretty dry and Stouts to be quite sweet/malty. (sweeter and maltier than reds) Read up on brewing very strong beers. Getting above 10-11% ABV gets difficult. The yeasts tend to stall out if steps are not taken to help them finish really big beers.

I have a 10.4 Russian Imperial stout that I flavored with 4 ounces of oak chips. It is great but I would also say it is sweet/malty. Also very "woody".

+1 for a Big Stout

Find a Russian Imperial Stout Recipe... add 1-2# sugar per 5 gallons.... add bourbon/rum and oak cubes in secondary or at packaging.

Might do this for my birthday too! (11/7)

@m00ps @m1k3 @kh54s10 @orionol73 @lumpher
Thank you all for answering.

What do you guys think about using a Big Stout grist with Belg yeast but fermenting it at lower temps to reduce fusels and esters?
Or, will it be better to mix Irish Ale with 3711 from the beginning (pitching both starters at the same time)?
Or say, (in case I use glass carboys) what about using Irish Ale yeast for the beginning and adding 3711 somewhere into the 2nd or 3rd week?
Or (In case I ferment this beer in stainless conical) wait for a couple of weeks, dump most of the Irish Ale yeast and repitch with well aerated 3711?
(I have had a surprisingly good experience with Fermentis US05 dry yeats, started on DME and grown to 2L on a stirplate - that was the driest APA I ever had, 8+ abv; almost no body but great smell and huge alcoholic blast).

I'm still somewhat suspicious about going Belg for this occasion. Going Stout seems safer to me. Wheatwine was an exciting idea, I admit, but I never made it before and wouldn't risk experimenting on a batch as important as it is going to be.

My stout that he loved was made solely on Irish Ale yeast - and I still consider it the best beer I've made (I'm no Stout boy but the fact is the fact, it was just so good). Ideally I'd want to keep it on the same yeast all the way but fear it'd get stuck at ~1040s.

Ideas?

(p.s. - I can NOT find good oak chips here, period. lots of furniture factories around but they use pre-treated wood I wouldn't risk throwing into anything I would later drink).

GQT said:

@m00ps @m1k3 @kh54s10 @orionol73 @lumpher
Thank you all for answering.

What do you guys think about using a Big Stout grist with Belg yeast but fermenting it at lower temps to reduce fusels and esters?
Or, will it be better to mix Irish Ale with 3711 from the beginning (pitching both starters at the same time)?
Or say, (in case I use glass carboys) what about using Irish Ale yeast for the beginning and adding 3711 somewhere into the 2nd or 3rd week?
Or (In case I ferment this beer in stainless conical) wait for a couple of weeks, dump most of the Irish Ale yeast and repitch with well aerated 3711?
(I have had a surprisingly good experience with Fermentis US05 dry yeats, started on DME and grown to 2L on a stirplate - that was the driest APA I ever had, 8+ abv; almost no body but great smell and huge alcoholic blast).

I'm still somewhat suspicious about going Belg for this occasion. Going Stout seems safer to me. Wheatwine was an exciting idea, I admit, but I never made it before and wouldn't risk experimenting on a batch as important as it is going to be.

My stout that he loved was made solely on Irish Ale yeast - and I still consider it the best beer I've made (I'm no Stout boy but the fact is the fact, it was just so good). Ideally I'd want to keep it on the same yeast all the way but fear it'd get stuck at ~1040s.

Ideas?

(p.s. - I can NOT find good oak chips here, period. lots of furniture factories around but they use pre-treated wood I wouldn't risk throwing into anything I would later drink).

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Belgian Stout is a great idea! This is one of the best I've ever had:
http://www.stonebrewing.com/blog/miscellany/2009/brewing-stone-090909-vertical-epic-ale-home

Again, this seems like conflicting info. What was in your stout that he liked? I think you're going to have trouble getting that much alcohol without any sweetness or maltiness.

I second the recommendation of 3711 yeast. It is a monster attenuator and doesn't throw fusels. I would do a stout, mash low, and use sugar. I would also make it very bitter, maybe 90 I business to limit the perception of sweetness.

Stock ale :-D

80% 2-row, 20% some form of sugar. Bring the IBU to around 100. Give it a good primary fermentation with a clean British yeast (e.g., Nottingham) and then a secondary with a very clean Brett (e.g., Brett C.). None of the funk of Belgian beers, enough body to get you by and definitively not sweet.

For inspiration, take something like this, tune it up a notch an finish with Brett C:
http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2009/07/lets-brew-wednesday-1877-whitbread-kkk.html

I would suggest doing a huge Russian Imperial Stout and maybe toning down the roasted malts (since it seems your friend doesn't prefer that taste). Also I would pitch a huge starter of the Irish Ale yeast you like, add simple sugar after the krausen has fallen ( I prefer honey if you can get it ~1kg). Once the Irish Ale yeast has fermented the honey (or stalled for any other reason) I would add a very high alcohol tolerant strain to dry it up (possibly adding more simple sugars).

Or traditional Scotch ale. Ridiculously strong, pale and relatively well balanced.

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/2016/03/lets-brew-wednesday-saturday-edition_19.html

Give him a bottle of vodka until he sorts out his taste buds...

As others have said getting above 10-11% can be quite difficult since alcohol inhibits yeast at higher levels. Hitting 15% is going to require you to start out around 30 °Plato! Do you have an oxygen tank and diffusion stone? You're going to need to pump in pure O2 multiple times. Basically you will need to approach this beer (regardless of the recipe) from the point of keeping the yeast happy so they don't crap out. All I can say is good luck!

Thanks everybody!
I decided to blow up my successful stout recipe so that it affords me at least 1120-1150 OG and go for multiple pitching.
@JKaranka, I'm located in China and my vpn is dead so I cannot follow the links you offered... pity.
I have never before done multi-pitching so there are many technical questions about when, how, and alike.
I do have a decent diffusion stone but no O2. (being a techdiver I'm used to treating O2 with extreme paranoid care, so reading about how easy some people take it gives me panic attacks ).
I will probably use Irish Ale yeast for the first stage (making huge starter on stronger than 1040 wort, possibly adding wort to starter to increase gravity from 1040 to 1080 or more), then 3711. Ideas, suggestions, advice?

Thank you guys. I can't read the thread every day, internet problems in Chna are worse than before now, but I do read what you are saying.

Sounds like the only thing that'll satisfy him is some Pilsen malt, bitter it fairly high to offset the alcohol sweetness, and use WLP099

Instead of a big starter, I just might try pitching on a whole or partial yeast cake from another batch. I also don't think you should wait to pitch the 3711 until your Iriah Ale yeast stalls--from what I've read you need to let yeast acclimate to such a harsh environment, not just throw them straight into 12% alcohol.

What are people's thoughts on leaving out the sugar and pitching a wine yeast with sugar additions later in femrentation? The 3711 could eat all the dextrins and the champagne yeast could take care of the simple sugars. I've never brewed anything this big, but it sounds right from what I've read.

GQT said:

Thanks everybody!
I decided to blow up my successful stout recipe so that it affords me at least 1120-1150 OG and go for multiple pitching.
@JKaranka, I'm located in China and my vpn is dead so I cannot follow the links you offered... pity.
I have never before done multi-pitching so there are many technical questions about when, how, and alike.
I do have a decent diffusion stone but no O2. (being a techdiver I'm used to treating O2 with extreme paranoid care, so reading about how easy some people take it gives me panic attacks ).
I will probably use Irish Ale yeast for the first stage (making huge starter on stronger than 1040 wort, possibly adding wort to starter to increase gravity from 1040 to 1080 or more), then 3711. Ideas, suggestions, advice?

Thank you guys. I can't read the thread every day, internet problems in Chna are worse than before now, but I do read what you are saying.

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