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Yes these aren't normal conditions, I agree. And to your last statement, that's kind of my question. I'm just scientifically curious as to why it's the case that it hasn't happened in beer because many beer do meet the specifications for it to grow. That's my only point now, I'm just curious now...

As I've stated previously, I was more worried and am much less now. This is more about my curiosity in the matter. The cases of Botulism in adults due to honey as far as I can tell is because they are immunocompromised. Additionally it is only in raw honey which I don't typically eat. I do...

Also as an example, before botulism was found in prison hooch, there were no reported cases of Botulism in any alcoholic beverage. And before it was found in nacho cheese at an gas station, I'm sure no one was thinking it was likely there either. Again, I'm not concerned about likelihood. But...

What things have I said that are untrue about botulism? Please correct me

Yes I started off this post with more concern, but I'm more just curious and speculative now

To be clear, it has been observed. In prison hooch multiple times and in experiments. But this is less about how likely it is for me, I've iterated that. This is just me being curious. I'm not trying to convince people that it's possible or that it's even risky, I'm just asking *why* it's not...

This is now more of a thought experiment for myself. I don't care that it's unlikely, I just like to think about why it's unlikely given the science around this and that I'm not convinced by some of the arguments made.

The point is that it shouldn't matter whether it's commercial or not. All brewing uses the same underlying processes. The only real difference is pasteurization and filtering and as far as I can tell, those processes (in commercial), have no effect on c. Botulinum growth. Commercial...

If it's a risk in commercial beer then it would be for homebrew too.. Just because something hasn't been reported yet doesn't mean it hasn't happened. There are such things as unreported cases and mild cases that weren't reported at all. It is very rare so doctors often do not know to look for...

I'm not completely convinced on hops antibacterial properties as this is pretty inconclusive and understudied in the scientific sphere. But I am willing to accept that as a potential possibility but would want more research done. Alcohol begins to inhibit c. Botulinum growth starting at 4%abv...

I think this is also with immunocompromised adults (ie the cases with adults). I'll have to look into that though

Out of the few more scientific articles I've read (one written by a microbiologist who is also a homebrewer), the explanation was that most beer is less than 4.6pH. But from my studies, that's not entirely true so I'm more so asking the question as to, if not pH (and alcohol)... then why

The study was referencing a wider brush of pathogens and it appears they did not go in depth into the C. Botulinum one which I believe is why they said that most ethanol concentrations will inhibit most pathogens. I am saying that based on the current recommendations by the FDA, any beer...

Also here is a study done on the risk of pathogen in low alcohol beers. It is a real risk https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0362028X23068679

Honey is known to often have the spores that cause botulism. The spores themselves are practically harmless to us because our bodies can filter them out. However, infant botulism exists because infants have not developed those anti-bacterial mechanisms, so it is possible for bacteria to grow in...

I am only saying 6% because that is the threshold for the bacteria growth for C. Botulinum which causes botulism. Above 6% inhibits growth of the bacteria entirely. So 'low' is more relative to the fact that the bacteria can grow if it is less than the 6%

I'm not saying he brought a single bottle. For awhile, I didn't own a keg, so I bottled all my beer. I would imagine whoever brought the homebrew also brought bottles. I am only saying that it would seem only a single bottle of that homebrew was infected..this would make the most sense being...

I haven't tested these beer styles, but from what I can tell from my research, there are quite a few styles that end ph above 4.6 including pale ales, IPAs, lagers (sometimes), brown ales, blondes. If pH was the only concern, breweries would likely be required to pressure can their IPAs.

I agree with a lot here. One thing though, I do think it's more likely than the food because everyone ate the food at the wedding. It seems most likely to me that there was one bottle of homebrew beer that he drank that no one else did. A standard 12-16oz bottle wouldn't be shared with anyone...

Truth😂. Thanks for the suggestion. Sounds relaxing and will do