Yeast Washing Illustrated

Speaking of cell count, is there any way to get a rough estimate as to how many cells of yeast you have successfully washed?

I have been thinking about doing this for my next batch but I am unsure how many separate jars to split it into.

I want to make sure that I have the appropriate amount of yeast based on my projected OG.

 

This has been asked and answered a couple times in the last few weeks on here. Here's my answer from the last time: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/index174.html#post4821930 (many others have given advice on this topic in this thread as well)

Edit: Apparently this link doesn't work for everyone (see Chriso's next post). Sorry. If anyone knows a better way to link to a post, let me know by PM and I'll happily update this one.

 

I can't get that link to work - Because I browse with "40 posts per page" turned on, It gives me a dead link that just takes me to the top of the very last page. - For anyone else also having this problem, the post he's referring to is #1736.

If you are having the same problem as I am, try this URL instead: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/yeast-washing-illustrated-41768/index44.html#post4821930

How annoying that it hard-codes which "page" of posts you are on, based on your view setting. That's not really a "Perma" link..... software fail. Oh well. More of a "Perma, for you, maybe" link. Anyways. Carry on.

 

any worry about mason jar bottle bombs with yeast washing? I just put jars in the fridge from a 10 day old primary, fermentation was pretty much done on day 5.

 

I'd suggest leaving the screw-on ring a bit loose so the jar can vent easily if it needs to. Even if you screw it tight, mason jars are terrible at maintaining internal positive pressure, so I don't think you'd be able to screw it on tightly enough that the glass would break before the lid found a way to leak.

But I wouldn't be inclined to try.

 

When I make a starter from some of the rinsed yeast I will start with a small gravity wort and move up to a larger gravity wort. I'm guessing this will take about 2 days. If the sample is infected will I know it by the smell of the yeast starter after a couple of days?
Any way to tell if the starter is bad?
Just wondering.
Thanks
Lakedawgs

 

Great thread, very helpful. This was my first go at saving and washing yeast. How did I do? If you haven't tried this it is easier than it seems. Now i have to brew a few more beers. Cheers!

 

If you think this is easy, you should try harvesting from a starter (see signature for details)

 

Yep, I have been growing up double starters, letting them settle out in the cold, pour off the wort, ad glycerine to 15%, chill again and freeze. Works out great and I always have a couple more starters ready to go when I need that yeast again. I have four yeast strains ready for an overnight and into the fermenter. Saves time and money. Avoids the whole washing process.

 

It can happen. Somewhere, maybe in this thread, I had one erupt on me and I posted a picture. No glass breakage but it did a number on the lid and made a yeasty mess. I highly recommend that you not shake them up, especially with some of the more active yeasts (whatever that means) unless you have cracked the lid a bit. I shook the one in question to get the yeast into suspension to pour out. The yeast started shooting every direction and then there was a loud Pop! and a mess ensued. Fun times!

 

That's a good point. In my earlier statement, I was assuming things are moving slowly---fermentation is mostly stopped. Shaking it up will knock a bunch of gas out of suspension faster than the lid can vent.

You can get a similar effect by taking a plastic jar or other container not designed for holding pressure and filling it half-way or so with hot water. Put on the lid and shake. You will get an eruption there, too (This gets me a lot when washing out jars for recycling.)

 

Curiou to know what people use to store their washed yeast. I start with a pint canning jar and then transfer to baby food jars once the yeast has drppoed out and settled. I am using baby food jars because of feeding our 8 month old baby but I don't know if this is OK storage for 1-2 months.

Any thoughts?

 

msa8967 - I use baby food jars too, the large ones (4 ounces?). I boil mine and haven't had any issues yet.

 

I have a couple of white lab vials and tried transferring some from my glass container to those but i don't think i got enough out of it.

 

I wash and decant starter and use a turkey baster to grab the slurry. Figure on making another starter anyway before pitching.

 

I am sure this has been covered in the 1800+ replies on this thread but I will ask it anyway.

Is there any evidence that Starsan solution alone is insufficient to sanitise all items that the rinsed yeast will come in contact with( including the storage containers). I have always put my containers and equipment in the pressure cooker but others suggest this is unnecessary and I only need use starsan and boil the water used in rinsing the yeast.

 

I wash mason jars then fill with light solution of Oxy Clean and let sit for 1/2 hour then rinse and drop everything in a bucket of Starsan for a 1/2 hour and have never had an issue.

 

If starsan is good enough for sanitize while you are fermenting, I don't see why it wouldn't be good enough for the washed yeast.

 

I just sanitize my jars with a spray bottle of starsan. It works fine.

 

I think you are asking a bit more out of the sanitization when washing yeast. With an ordinary fermentation, you have very active yeast that will outperform most potential infections. By the time the yeast slows, you have a high alcohol environment that will inhibit anything that survived. It's only the relatively few bacteria or wild yeasts that can tolerate the alcohol that cause problems.

In a yeast rinse, you are doing everything you can to obtain yeast+water and put the yeast into a dormant state. In that situation, it seems at least plausible that the environment is more hospitable to infection by organisms that would normally be overwhelmed in a beer. Boiling (especially in a pressure cooker) will do a more thorough job of sanitizing, in some cases reaching sterilization.

This is speculation, though, and there are good counterarguments: the rinsed yeast are stored in a cold environment; the stored slurry has less food to make it an enticing habitat for bacteria; and it doesn't do any good to start with a sterile jar if you don't have a completely sterile process for handling and filling it.

While going through my last rinse, I was wondering the same thing, though. It was a pain to boil the jars and lids. I suspect in most cases you'd be fine either way, and probably the most effective approach would be to boil so you can start with a near-sterile jar, then use contact sanitizer to protect against infection during the rinse. If anyone has concrete information about this, I'd be interested.

 

Thanks for your input Zeg. Basically that is my thinking as well.

 

Another stupid question that I am sure has been answered in the last 1800+ posts.

Why do people use so much water to store the yeast?

It often seems to me that many images posted, 90% or more of the jar is water and only around 5 - 10% yeast.

What is the minimum covering needed? I have 50ml vials which I have started using and I am filling them around 85% yeast and 15% distilled water. They have measurements marked on them which makes it easy to determine volume of yeast. The great thing is they do not take over all the fridge space.

Can anyone advise if this is not a good idea?

 

I could be wrong but I think it's to ensure there's no head space for oxygen hover over. Having said that, I filled one bottle halfway once and didn't seem to have any problems.

 

I don't think there's any benefit from the water itself. However, like tg123 said, you want your container full. You could decant and pour into a smaller container. The only reason I know of not to do this is that it requires additional handling and transfer.

 

I tried this process for the first time last week and just pitched it on Sunday. I was using Bry-97 that was originally in a dry packet. My wash sat in the fridge for approximately 8 days until I used it (No starter used. Just decanted and swirled it up a bit). Within 12 hours, the airlock was almost bouncing out of the grommet there was so much activity. I had never seen this yeast react nearly this well. It usually takes around 48 hrs to see any activity but this time it is crazy. There is so much bubbling that it's impossible to even count the time lapsed between bubbles. Now, this morning at about 54 hours, it's almost completely finished already. I will for sure continue to do this!

 

First time poster. Thanks everyone for this thread. I've read the first, oh, few hundred comments and then the last few hundred. I have 182 pages listed so I'm hoping I'm not asking something that was covered on page 134.

I started reading this post because I have a new, 15-gallon conical fermenter and I have never harvested yeast before. I have a bottom and side valve on my conical. I think I understand the washing aspect of it from all the posts on the thread. In the past, when I just drained off the yeast, I just threw it away (I know, don't shoot me). I would collect around a gallon of "stuff", if not more, during this dump. So I would expect that much again.

So my question is, what is the best way to get to that yeast out of my conical. My "guess", is that I collect everything out of the bottom valve after fermentation has run its course. Collect this into a sterilized 1 - 2 gallon jug or carboy. Then begin the process of separating and washing the waste from the yeast as described in this thread. If that sounds correct, my guess (again) is that I should end up with quite a bit of waste on this first collection, hence the large 1 - 2 gallon jug or carboy for the initial catch. Then eventually let it settle, decant, settle, etc till I have just the yeast in small bottles/vials.

Am I close?

 

Sounds like a plan to me. A gallon or two is not an absurd amount to start the rinsing with. I'd say I have typically a half gallon of yeast+trub in my 5 gallon primary, so 2-3 times that for a 15 gallon fermentor sounds about right.

 

I find second generation yeast more aggressive than the first generation dry yeast.
Do you normally rehydrate the dry yeast?
Another possible factor in the very quick liftoff may be that you pitched more viable cells. Did you do a calculation on the amount of rinsed yeast that you were pitching? It is just as easy to overpitch as underpitch. Significantly overpitching can have subtle negative effects on your beer.

 

Was talking to a brewclub member and this subject came up.
He asked this. If you harvested yeast and put in the fridge and couple of weeks later you pull one out to use, if it was spoiled, would you not smell it? What about tasting a bit of the beer on top of the yeast that you pour off?
I'm not sure, but it seems like if the yeast has gone bad due to contamination in the washing process you would know after it sat for a week or two.

 

Yea I rehydrate my dry yeast. I didn't do a calculation for a cell count, but the jar I used probably had the same amount as a liquid vial would. I know this isn't an indication of number of viable cells, but everything seems to be going ok.

 

Made a starter for one of these last week. Starter showed 65% attenuation in one day with an air lock and intermittent shaking. It's bubbling away currently and ill report back about its attenuation. 1.062 batch. So much for believing yeast had to be used in two weeks or a month.

If you taste the beer above the yeast you better sanitize your mouth or dump the yeast. You're introducing bacteria if you do this.

 

Um, or you could decant the beer, then taste it.

 

That is actually what I was thinking, decant a bit and taste that. If the yeast/beer had been infected you would taste that, correct?

 

I don't think it's guaranteed that you would taste something, but if it does taste off, don't use it.

 

I guarantee you would taste autolyzed yeast, of that we're the case- burnt rubber aroma and taste.

 

There are many problems you would easily taste. But that doesn't mean that *every* problem would be readily apparent. Properly rinsed yeast is mostly in a water suspension, so it's conceivable there's something latent that hasn't had the resources it needs to go funky.

But, this is brewing, and brewer's yeast are the Uruk-Hai of the yeast Middle Earth. They're bred to be vicious and efficient, they'll outcompete most competitors if you give them fair conditions. In the absence of evidence of an infection or a reason to think you've contaminated your starter, there's no practical reason to worry. It's possible something is lurking in the jar, but the risk is comparable to or less than the general risk of a beer going bad for all the various other reasons.

 

Nerd quibble...the Uruk-Hai were on the losing side and I'd like my yeast to do better than the orcs ;-)

Good point though, the yeast will take care of a small number of random nasties on their own.

 

Well, they do pretty well until Aragorn racks the beer off the top and pours 'em down the drain...

 

Either way, I prefer to harvest from starters-- see signature

 

Just revived a jar of 1272 from early November! 1.5 quart starter took off after about 12 hours. Pretty happy about this