Wyeast 3711 French Saison

That was kind of my thinking, just trying to compliment different aspects of the yeast using hops I had on hand. Willamette smelled pretty spicy so I said what the hell, guess I'll find out if it works or not. For a brief moment there I looked at the Chinook, but my rational side was like "no, don't do it! not here! that's for IPA's!" Now I kinda wish I had...

 

I wonder if Sorachi or Citra would work? Haven't used either, but the citrus/lemon aspects I've read about might bring out interesting flavors. Maybe Amarillo? I sometimes get a bit of tropical fruit in my Amarillo Blonde....

 

I did put amarillo once, that's good. Citra would be good

sorachi ace is a disgusting hop, don't do it.

 

Might not be exactly what you're looking for but pacific jade and styrian celeia are cool
Hops at knockout/dry hop

 

I did a 10 gallon batch and split it, one's on 3711 and the other on a belgian strain from a local brewery. It's basicly a 60% pills 40% wheat and I did Citra at 60 min. ahtanum at 20mins for 45 IBUs and 3oz ahtanum 0 mins. I brewed it last weekend, I'll let you know how that comes out... I've done the same thing with all Amarillo and it was great. Sorachi is a good hop for a saison and it good in Brooklyn single hop by the same name.

 

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Would you care to clarify?

I've never used it but enjoyed the Brooklyn Sorachi Ace the time I tasted it.

 

hehe, I HATE brooklyn Sorachi Ace, and the lemony flavor of that hop. I was jesting- but I really don't like it.


although you may like it

 

Lemony©2012

 

Ahh, I misread then. In that case, yes, funk level goes up along with temperature, especially when it's young. Part of the reason I've conditioned the last couple batches for so long is because I wanted the funk level to subside, but I deliberately fermented them at whatever temp they wanted to reach. I like a yeast that encourages me to be lazy, and saisons are excellent for that!

And your hypothesis seems to reflect my own experiences; lately, if I'm using 3711, I know its funk will subside over time, so if I let it go crazy with the temperature, I can set the batch aside for a while until I free up some dispenser space.

 

Is there a consensus on this? Does everyone experience funky flavors decreasing in 3711 over time?

 

I've had 5 gals on this (3711) since febuary.. do you think that's too long on the yeast cake? What do y'all think?

 

Probably ok but I don't know if I'd leave it much longer.

 

I'm going to test with my summer saison mashed at 149* and fermented in the mid to upper 80's.

I have obe bottle remaining from last year it's about 12 months old now. I'll drink it tonight and post the results.

 

Incidentally, the 3711 Tripel just went into the fridge (I blew through my IBA way faster than anticipated!); next week I'll be able to post an update on that as well.

@2brew: It'll be fine, but I agree that it's probably time to rack/bottle it. If you're bottle-conditioning, you'll probably want to toss some extra yeast in to make sure you've got active cells for carbonation.

 

Definitely need those extra yeast cells. For a traditional saison I like a well carbonated beer.

 

First, here is my recipe this has been brewed twice now. The two differences between batches are Batch #2 was bulk aged for 5 months and then kegged. Batch # 1 was botteled and drank as soon as it was carbbed.


Recipe: Saison
Brewer: Le Freak
Asst Brewer:
Style: Saison
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.93 gal
Post Boil Volume: 6.24 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.50 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.50 gal
Estimated OG: 1.065 SG
Estimated Color: 6.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 33.4 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 81.8 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 64.3 %
3 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 21.4 %
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4 7.1 %
1.75 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 23.6 IBUs
2.00 oz Fuggles [4.50 %] - Dry Hop 7.0 Days Hop 9 0.0 IBUs
1.00 oz Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 20.0 mi Hop 6 9.8 IBUs
1.10 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 -
1.0 pkg French Saison (Wyeast Labs #3711) [50.00 Yeast 8 -
1 lbs Rice Hulls (0.0 SRM) Adjunct 1 7.1 %


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 17.50 qt of water at 162.9 F 148.0 F 90 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (0.89gal, 3.59gal) of 168.0 F water
Notes:

 

I poured a glass of last years summer saison which is now about 12 months old and a glass of this years saison which is kegged. Both were mashed at 148-149* for 90 min. Batch #1 allowed the fermentation temps to run wild uncontrolled and I would estimate Batch # 1 fermented at a minimum mid 80's to upper 80's if not 90*. Batch #2 I started fermentation around 70* and ramped up to 80* over the course of a few days. As mentioned in previous post Batch 1 was botteled and drank fresh and Batch 2 was bulk aged for 5 months and then kegged.

Batch 1: still has the saison funk is still crisp but I believe has lost the peppery phenol's that I love about this beer. The beer has held up well to aging and tastes incredible.
Batch 2: Has the saison funk is crisp but also seems to be missing the peppery phenol's this has been confirmed by a friend as well. This is a great beer for sitting on the deck and enjoying a hot summer afternoon (well both are).

My conclusion is Batch #1 is the better beer a year later. In fact drinking batch 1 then flushing with water and sampling Batch #2, the second is a little bland.

With all that said I believe my next batch will not be bulk aged and I will drink fresh I think the beers hold up nicely to aging but the phenol's that make these beers seem to diminish over time.

Here's to drinking beer on a friday afternoon in perfect weather when technically I should still be at work.

 

Another question for you 3711 experts...

There's a local homebrew competition on July 7th, and at that time my 3711 saison will be in the bottle 3 weeks exactly. It's about 7.7% and temp was held at 68f the first 48 hours, then allowed to rise, never got above 76f. It was a month in primary with no secondary.

My gut tells me this isn't enough time to be quite ready, but does anyone else think different? Have you had one come out good this young? I'm not trying to win the competition, just looking to get my first real judges feedback on my beer. Just don't want to bother if it's not going to be ready...

 

I think you'll be fine. I usually like this one young. your ferm temps were good. It may get better with more age, as it's a little high ABV.

What was the recipe? I find that certain malts require more aging than others with this one.

 

I'm more an enthusiast than an expert, but my Saison w/ 3711 got 1st out of 41 entries when it was about 6-7 weeks old.

 

A young 3711 can still be great; I'd submit it and see where it goes. I feel like it hits its stride around 1.5 months or so, but it'll also vary depending on fermentation temperature, time in primary, etc. Let it ride!

 

It's an extract recipe, about as simple as you can get - 10% wheat, 7% table sugar, and the rest pilsner DME. I've got some dryhopped and some not.

Thanks for the replies - I'd definitely feel more comfortable if I was at the 6-7 week mark, but I guess for the $5 entry fee I've really got nothing to lose, so I think I'll go for it!

Now to decide, cascade, willamette, or no dryhop...

 

Cascade!

 

No dry hop! (Maybe hallertau or saaz, if you must)

 

+1 on hallertau/Saaz or no dry hop.

I'd go for a new Zealand hop if I wanted to "deviate from tradition." or add some spice in lieu of hops. Star anise, cinnamon, lemon zest, lime zest. You know, go crazy. That's why saisons are cool.

Leave those other hops for ipa's

 

Balls to that! . I hop my 3711Saison entirely w/ Cascade. It's a great complement to the citrus notes of the yeast!

 

I guess I should have specified, the dry-hopping is already done. I did a gallon with Cascade, a gallon with Willamette, and 3 gallons with no dry-hop. I was just trying to decide which version to enter into the competition

That's what I was hoping for with the Cascade choice, good to know it works out well!

 

just had a 6 month old French saison last night- and I am really getting tired of the citrus notes.

I used to love this yeast...

 

Update on the BDSA I brewed with 3711: It's been four weeks, and it still seems to be slowly fermenting. Gravity is around 1.005, and I'm hoping it'll hurry up and finish. I want to get it into bottles so I can at least try one when family's in town in about a month. It's spent a long time at ambient temps and some times with a heating pad to boost temp, but it's still going.

 

I wonder if you could mitigate the citrus notes by fermenting colder. Given this yeast's tendency to ferment down to sub 1.005 gravities it might give a cleaner ferment while still drying out.

Will

 

I would start taking a gravity samples every 24 hours for three days to confirm fermentation is complete. It may very well be at terminal gravity and you are seeing a release of co2. I had an RIS do this for a month as well. Fermentation was most likely complete way before I thougt it was. Just a thought.

 

What a thread! First off, thanks to all of those who have experimented with this yeast and posted their results. It provides a lot of great info.

Just brewed my first Saison on the Fourth and pitched with 3711. Since I have my ferm chamber full with ESB's at the moment, this thing is fermenting at ambient temps of 74F, and judging by the fermometer, it's sitting around 77, 78 degrees.

I was going to boil up some sugar and add it, but it looks like there's no reason to do so with this yeast, so at 1.044 it will stay!

I'm at work and don't have BS print out but my recipe was something like this:

5 gal test batch

8# Bel Pils
1.5# White Wheat
1 # Munich
.5 Aromatic
1 oz Santiam 60 min
.5 oz Santiam 15 min
.5 oz Santiam 5 min (all 6.1% AA)
1 Whirlflock tablet 15 min
.5 oz Sweet Orange Peel 5 min
.5 oz Coriander 5 min

Mashed at 151 for 75 mins.

I'll let it ride for 2-3 weeks and then keg it and see where she stands. It will be interesting to see what the Santiam hops lend as I've never used them and haven't read any information on them so far.

 

yeah it should dry out without the need of sugar additions.

 

I'm not just trusting the airlock; it was at 1.006 on July 3rd, 1.005 on July 6th, and I'll probably take another sample in a day or two. I really hope it stops, because I don't want it any drier and I need the fermenter for a hefeweizen!

 

With that amount of wheat, your "dryness" level will be mitigated, but don't be surprised if you it 1-2gp. Dryness is only perceived by the relative amount of glycogen(?) and glycerol. More=less dry, less=more dry. I had a rye saison that lost points (like, 10 points! Fools) because it "wasn't dry enough" but came in at 1gp. Rye, wheat, spelt, sorghum, etc produce a lot in conjunction with saison yeasts. This yeast is particular in that if you don't give all kinds of weird foods, it may land as one-dimensional i.e. SMASH saisons or %95 pils/5 Munich or wheat or something. But, your recipe looks like it'll be a nice crisp saison with a pleasant dryness But not cloying or cotton-y.

I always treat this yeast by giving it "everything but the kitchen sink" treatment. Majority pils, minority wheat a/o Munich and a bunch of <10% weird adjuncts, particularly complex ones too.

Good luck!!! You're close!

 

Update:

Been exactly one month in the bottle on my 7.9%'er with this yeast, and it's excellent. I'm pretty impressed with this yeast. Lots of citrus, spice, no fusels and the abv isn't very noticeable at all.

Smagee - you were right, the one I dryhopped with Cascade is the best. Definitely a good choice!

I've already brewed up a more "sessionable" version aiming for 4.5%ish, but the heat around here got out of control and I wasn't able to keep the temp down the first 48 hours like I did the last one (kept it under 68). Pitched this one at 63 but it got up as high as 78 within 24 hours. Hopefully this doesn't cause problems...

 

I bottled my BDSA at 1.005 down from 1.098 (better eff than expected) in 4 weeks. I'll crack one in 3 weeks (4 in bottle) and see how things are going.

 

Would be interesting to see how it does in a brew like that, definitely let us know!