WLP611 Nordic Ale Yeast - Cider

[johnnyseko]

So I've had this cider going since 5/19. Racked it on 6/25 and went back today to see if it was time to bottle and/or flavor this cider. There's been a pellicle formed on each single gallon I have. I thought that was interesting but maybe normal for this yeast blend. It's been sitting at 70F air conditioned room the entire time.

My notes from the taste today is - it's tangy, almost like lemonade, mild sweet/sour flavor. I wonder if I should let this sit longer...or how long?? I have 4 single gallons and wonder if I should let them continue to age.

But then I went to rack my single gallons of S33 and WY1450 which were started 7/1 and found that they have also turned into the same 'funk' as the 611. Concerned my entire operation is infected. Nothing tastes spoiled but certainly not what I expected from the S33 and WY1450.

 

[Maylar]

It's very unusual for something with that little headspace to be growing anything. You did well controlling the exposure to oxygen (assuming you have airlocks there, can't see the tops). And since it's in multiple jugs, I'd have to question your sanitation practices.

If it were me, I'd rack to clean (thoroughly sanitized) carboys and add some K-Meta (Campden) and see if that stuff goes away.

 

[johnnyseko]

There are airlocks on those gallons. I wasn't sure if this was something expected for the yeast I used. I got the wlp611 to experiment with making a cider. I couldn't find any information from anyone using it for cider. But given the fact that whatever it is growing in there must have gotten into my latest batches with different yeasts has me concerned.

I'm sure it could be a lack of sanitation. I use double strength star san soaks and spray everything around as well. The possibility of infection is still always possible.

At this point I'm not sure if I should continue to age it as is and see if there's improvement. I've been reading about making sours but I don't have anything to compare it with. Now if I rack and kill everything will this cider improve with age or will I just prevent it from turning to vinegar. Hmmmm I have four single gallons. Maybe Campden two and let the other two ride it out?

That all said, I have sprayed down my entire brew area with star san before anything else new is pitched.

 

[RPh_Guy]

I would use sulfite on any cider that's aging.

Not only will sulfite inhibit bacteria growth (generally) but also prevent oxidation. Reducing headspace only slows both processes, and not that much at 70°F.

You obviously have some kind of yeast or bacterial contamination. It may have come from the juice, somewhere on your equipment, or possibly airborne.
-Do you clean (e.g. PBW soak) in addition to sanitize?
-Consider replacing any plastic/rubber pieces that touched these batches. Biofilms love plastic.
-Racking off lees/sediment helps remove nitrogen sources so contaminants don't have as much nutrient access.
-Do you measure pH? Lower pH means more stability. This is also a smart prerequisite for using sulfites since the efficacy is pH-dependent.

I doubt aging will remove the flavors that have already developed.

 

[johnnyseko]

Thanks guys. Sulfite...I guess I'll have to ruin a few batches before I learn! ugh. This isn't the first one. I really need to make better notes for procedures to follow with each batch.

As for the PBW - I had never heard of it until now!! Added to the list. I used to use One Step and after a few batches I got lazy and figured Star San alone should be fine. Ha.
I have measured ph in the past and will now use that as a measure of how much sulfite to add as well.

Rookie mistakes. I'll get this eventually.

 

[madscientist451]

If 3 batches of cider taste the same with 3 different yeasts it could be an infection, but what about the apple juice being used? Was it different, or was it the same for all 3? I've done lots of juice/yeast experiments and have come to the conclusion that while the yeast selection CAN make a difference, the selection of apples used has a greater impact on the favor. There are really too many possible variables to provide the OP with a definite answer, so if it tastes OK now, start drinking it ASAP.

 

[johnnyseko]

Same orchard juice I've been using all year. I think the mix they use has been pretty consistent too. I've had some varying results depending on the yeast, temps, time...etc. The batches I posted about don't taste 'bad' - but definitely unique - like a 'farmhouse' natural ferment I've had at various cideries. I'm going to rack, sulfite and bottle asap. Then clean the heck out of everything so I can get back to a nice basic cider. I have to tone down the experimentation a bit and get my process in order.

 

[NeverDie]

Has anyone here had success with the WLP611? It looks interesting to me: maybe with its low ABV tolerance you can get a semi-sweet cider in one pass from just the juice itself?

[Edit: OK, I picked some up today, and I've now innoculated two different juices, so the answers should be coming either this week or soon thereafter. ]

 

[NeverDie]

Has anyone here had success with the WLP611? It looks interesting to me: maybe with its low ABV tolerance you can get a semi-sweet cider in one pass from just the juice itself?

[Edit: OK, I picked some up today, and I've now innoculated two different juices, so the answers should be coming either this week or soon thereafter. ]

It works! The plain AJ was probably 90% finished fermenting in about 4 days, providing a sweet cider with an alcohol percentage of approximately 4.5%. I'm presently cold crashing it. However, I started another batch today, which I plan to let ferment all the way to completion to get a different datapoint for comparison.

 

[RPh_Guy]

It works! The plain AJ was probably 90% finished fermenting in about 4 days, providing a sweet cider with an alcohol percentage of approximately 4.5%. I'm presently cold crashing it.

FYI, it's not stable for bottling from just cold crashing.

 

[NeverDie]

FYI, it's not stable for bottling from just cold crashing.

Thanks. Good to know. If I don't go the route of kiling it with chemicals, then would pasteurizing for 6 seconds at 160F make it stable enough for bottling? Would that harm the flavor?

 

[RPh_Guy]

Thanks. Good to know. If I don't go the route of kiling it with chemicals, then would pasteurizing for 6 seconds at 160F make it stable enough for bottling? Would that harm the flavor?

Yes, bottles can be heat pasteurized. There's a thread about that. There is some risk of explosion, especially if carbonated.

Either method may impact flavor. Whether it's fine depends on who you ask.
My advice is to try it different ways and see what works for you. Experimentation is half the fun anyway!
Cheers

 

[NeverDie]

Either method may impact flavor. Whether it's fine depends on who you ask.

It sounds like the gold standard would be refrigeration then, which is my current situation...until I run out of space.