Too much roasted barley!

I attempted to convert one of my extract recipes to all grain. In the extract recipe I used 1# of roasted barley, .25# black patent. (I used a bottle to crush them) For the all grain version I used 1# roasted barley, 1# midnight wheat no black patent. Is there anyway to smooth out this beer? It has what I think an astringent taste up front.

The extract batch came out perfect for me granted it could be because I didn't use a mill.

Any suggestions? The batch is currently being dry hopped.

 

I hate to admit it, but "been there, done that". I had to find out the hard way about being extra careful using dark roasted steeping grains. Too much = burnt flavor that dominates all other flavors.

I tasted mine before bottling, thought about it a minute, and tossed the batch. Lesson learned.

 

At this point, it will be tough to correct. I'm assuming you want to find a way to add sweetness to this to balance out the astringency from the roasted malt.

I can think of 3 options...

1) Sit on it for a few more weeks & sample again. It could just have the astringency of "green" beer...possibly a combination of the roasted malt & hop bitterness. After it conditions for a little longer, the flavors may blend together better & you'll have less hops left in suspension.

2) Make another beer & blend the two (a milk stout would be a good way to sweeten it up)

3) Add some vanilla beans & let it sit for a couple weeks on it

What style of beer is this? If it's a Black IPA, the vanilla addition would probably make it worse.

 

So you're saying that time might not heal this batch? At least I saved the yeast.

 

It is a black IPA, I haven't tasted anything similar before. Good idea with the milk stout and blending.

 

What's the total grain bill?

A few general rules of thumb I live by...
- Only use up to 15% specialty malts in a batch
- If using roasted malt, use no more than 10% in a batch

Since I've never used Midnight Wheat, I have no idea how harsh that roasted wheat flavor will come through...do you know the Lovibond color on that?

 

11# 2-row
1# Munich (had some laying around didn't want to run and get 1# 2-row)
1# Midnight Wheat (550 lovibond)
1# Roasted Barley
.75# Caramel 60L
.25# Carapils

 

It is the first time using midnight wheat but the description is:

Smooth, with no bitter, astringent, dry flavors or aftertaste. Starts slightly sweet. Mild roasted/chocolate/coffee flavors and aroma. Finishes exceptionally clean.

 

That's 13.3% roasted malts, which really isn't too overboard. I would wait a few weeks & taste it again. You may just have a young beer that hasn't had a chance for the flavors to meld together.

If it's still to astringent, you could consider blending a milk stout with about 7% roasted malt & end up in decent shape. It won't necessarily be a Black IPA though...probably more along the lines of a hoppy stout.

I read Mitch Steele's book on hops/IPAs. With Black IPAs, you really don't want to use any roasted barley/wheat/chocolate/black patent. Stick to dehusked Caraffa. It will give you the color without imparting any roasty/astringent flavor. That way, the hops will stand out & pop more.

 

That's a lot of roasted malts! I think your best bet is to blend it with a malty or sweet beer or choke it down and move on. Time won't dissipate the flavors enough to make it that much better.

 

You have alot of roasted malts in there i and i would say time would mellow it out somewhat but you said it was a Black IPA, prob somthing you would want to drink fresher. If its stable package it up and sit on the bottles for 3 weeks and try 1 for a week every week.

There is NEVER any reason to toss a batch unless its cleary infected or you need the space, to the guy up there that said it tasted astringent and thought for a minute before tossing it. That sounds crazy that you wouldn't taste it carbed or in its prime before tossing a green lackluster batch.

 

Should I bottle it and shelf it and try 1 every week or just keg it and do the same?

 

I would give it a little time. That is a big dose of roasted barley. I have used Midnight Wheat several times...if anything it can be too mild. My guess is that the harshness will mellow out after a month.

 

Hang on a second... are you complaining about the astringincy of flat beer in a fermenter?

If so, bottle or keg the beer, let it properly carb up, THEN taste it. Flat, green beer resembles the real deal, but often seems to be full of flaws that disappear when properly carbed and aged.

 

I am just curious what the astringent flavor from the roasted barley will turn out to be. I will be carbing it up just looking if there is a way to smooth it out besides time.

 

There's really no way to tell without giving it time. If you want to know what it will taste like carbonated, but still want the flexibility to correct it later on, I'd get some carbonation drops from your LHBS. Bottle a couple with those & let them sit 3 weeks @ 70 F. Try one once they're carbed & you'll have an idea of what it will taste like for the next few months. If you still think it's too astringent, you have the rest of your batch to try the blending technique.

Normally you could bulk age it so a lot of the hops will fade, but with a Black IPA I'd fear that you'd get an unwanted oxidized flavor due to the quantity of hops in the recipe.

It's tough to tell you what to do without tasting it though. Astringency is subjective from person to person, so I can't be sure if it will be something that will mellow out with a little aging/carbonation.

 

Well glad to say that time has healed the beer. Plus I dry hopped a few oz. Here's a pic of the Black IPA.

Now I made a small beer off of the second running and the same taste is still there kind of astringent ( a little less pronounced. ) and I did not dry hop. Not terrible and those that have had it enjoyed the small beer.

 

You might want to consider steeping your dark/roasted grains instead of mashing them. Comes out a lot smoother that way and without the harsh astringency. Some people cold steep the night before. I just steep in the wort before I boil. My first stout I mashed all the grains and had the same problem you're having. Just a suggestion. Cheers.

 

Hmm I didn't even think about steeping them instead. I figured since I didn't use a mill last time that could of brought more astringent flavor out since i steeped it last time. Do you just basically start the steep while you're collecting the wort?

 

No. I collect all the runnings in the bk and then steep like you would for an extract batch. I usually heat the wort a little to around 150F but sometimes I just steep at whatever temp the wort ends up at after the mash (usually around 130F). I steep for about 30 minutes with tea bagging.

 

Thanks for the tip! I'll try that next time i use dark grains which is often!

 

too much roasty flavor nabs me done it :cross:

not even high alpha hops didn't help to fix taste of beer way too much roasty

is there anyway to fix it or its good for trash