To settle a debate...100% Vienna Oktoberfest?!?

is it possible to have a 100% Vienna Oktoberfest? It sure does sound like a Vienna Lager to me.

 

At the minimum an Oktoberfest would need other grains for color.

edit
The base malt can be all Vienna or Munich.

 

This is what I said. I've been talking to someone that thinks you can brew an Oktoberfest with 100% Vienna. I agree with you completely. You can certainly have one with Vienna as the base malt, but you need some crystal or chocolate at a bare minimum to achieve the color needed for an Oktoberfest.

 

Generally I would say 'no', but not all malts are created equally. If you had a Vienna that was around 6L t I have seen one or two) that would get you in the ballpark, especially if you did a couple decoctions. I use 100% 7L Munich in my Ofest/Marzen and it does the trick

 

Not necessarily true. Traditional German decoction mashing would achieve darkening color and increased depth of flavor from any malt. Technically using decoction you could almost make a darker lager with 100% pilsner malt if you boiled decoctions long enough.


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+1
This was posted while I was writing. Absolutely possible.



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Also, what's your definition of "Oktoberfest"? Most German-made Oktoberfests are "Festbiers" that are somewhere between a Maibock and a Helles, and a fairly pale color would do just fine there.

 

I was also considering a decoction mash, but I wasn't sure how much darker it would be from one. I know some of the earliest Marzens were paler in color, but I'm wondering if you could achieve the complexity of a traditional Oktoberfest with only vienna.

 

Is it cheating if you darken by oven-toasting some of the Vienna malt first?

 

I was also considering a decoction mash, but I wasn't sure how much darker it would be from one. I know some of the earliest Marzens were paler in color, but I'm wondering if you could achieve the complexity of a traditional Oktoberfest with only vienna.

 

well in 2006 a 100% vienna Oktoberfest won Nationals, so I would say yes. I've also brewed one in this manner and it turned out great. Much like Ayinger.

http://wiki.homebrewersassociation.org/OfaceOfest

 

This is what I was thinking... Toast a half pound it so to get some color.

 

It says that beer was brewed with a triple decoction mash and a 180 min boil!! I suppose that will bring it into the proper color for the style. How much influence does the decoction mash have on color? I know it darkens it some, bust just how much of a difference does it make in terms of color?

 

I don't think a single decoction adds much color. Look for the brew kaiser experiments ... He shows a side by side with and without decoction

 

To say that an O-fest NEEDS crystal or roasted malts just feels wrong. If you are trying to be authentic - to either the traditional, darker versions or the newer, lighter "fest beers" - neither of these would be appropriate.

Decoction will absolutely do it. You could "cheat" with some melanoiden malt, too.

 

Not a single decoction, but triple. I've read Kaiser's site through and through actually!! VERY good stuff.

 

Yeah, a triple would add more than a single but the point I was aiming at is that any individual decoction would add only a small color change, so even a triple wouldn't add a *lot* of color. Some color, sure, but I'd bet most of the color comes from the 3 hour boil! Lots of melanoiden production there and some maillard products, too.

But, then again, maybe something else goes on when decocting three times that you don't get with just once.... Maybe we should talk Kai into doing a new experiment

 

As far as im concerned Its homebrewing, call it whatever you want. Ive never brewed much with Vienna malt. My tastes for an Ofest is 50/50 Pils/Munich which gives me an amber orange color and a nice malty brew. Too much crystal makes it too sweet IMHO.