To settle a debate...100% Vienna Oktoberfest?!? | HomeBrewTalk.com - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Community.

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To settle a debate...100% Vienna Oktoberfest?!?

Discussion in 'Recipes/Ingredients' started by Justdrumin, Dec 1, 2014.

 

  1. #1
    Justdrumin

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 1, 2014
    is it possible to have a 100% Vienna Oktoberfest? It sure does sound like a Vienna Lager to me.
     
  2. #2
    flars

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 1, 2014
    At the minimum an Oktoberfest would need other grains for color.

    edit
    The base malt can be all Vienna or Munich.
     
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2014
  3. #3
    Justdrumin

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 1, 2014
    This is what I said. I've been talking to someone that thinks you can brew an Oktoberfest with 100% Vienna. I agree with you completely. You can certainly have one with Vienna as the base malt, but you need some crystal or chocolate at a bare minimum to achieve the color needed for an Oktoberfest.
     
  4. #4
    wailingguitar

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 1, 2014
    Generally I would say 'no', but not all malts are created equally. If you had a Vienna that was around 6L t I have seen one or two) that would get you in the ballpark, especially if you did a couple decoctions. I use 100% 7L Munich in my Ofest/Marzen and it does the trick
     
    homebrewdad likes this.
  5. #5
    cilestiok

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 1, 2014
    Not necessarily true. Traditional German decoction mashing would achieve darkening color and increased depth of flavor from any malt. Technically using decoction you could almost make a darker lager with 100% pilsner malt if you boiled decoctions long enough.


    Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
     
    McGarnigle likes this.
  6. #6
    cilestiok

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 1, 2014

    +1
    This was posted while I was writing. Absolutely possible.



    Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew
     
  7. #7
    QuercusMax

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 1, 2014
    Also, what's your definition of "Oktoberfest"? Most German-made Oktoberfests are "Festbiers" that are somewhere between a Maibock and a Helles, and a fairly pale color would do just fine there.
     
  8. #8
    Justdrumin

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 1, 2014
    I was also considering a decoction mash, but I wasn't sure how much darker it would be from one. I know some of the earliest Marzens were paler in color, but I'm wondering if you could achieve the complexity of a traditional Oktoberfest with only vienna.
     
  9. #9
    Yooper

    Ale's What Cures You! Staff Member  

    Posted Dec 1, 2014
    My favorite Oktoberfest is 80% Vienna malt, so I think I could make a very nice 100% Vienna malt O'fest with some thought (and decoctions).
     
  10. #10
    agrazela

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 1, 2014
    Is it cheating if you darken by oven-toasting some of the Vienna malt first?
     
  11. #11
    Justdrumin

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 1, 2014
    I was also considering a decoction mash, but I wasn't sure how much darker it would be from one. I know some of the earliest Marzens were paler in color, but I'm wondering if you could achieve the complexity of a traditional Oktoberfest with only vienna.
     
  12. #12
    bnuttz

    Active Member

    Posted Dec 2, 2014
  13. #13
    jtratcliff

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted Dec 2, 2014
    This is what I was thinking... Toast a half pound it so to get some color.
     
  14. #14
    Justdrumin

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 2, 2014
    It says that beer was brewed with a triple decoction mash and a 180 min boil!! I suppose that will bring it into the proper color for the style. How much influence does the decoction mash have on color? I know it darkens it some, bust just how much of a difference does it make in terms of color?
     
  15. #15
    jtratcliff

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted Dec 2, 2014
    I don't think a single decoction adds much color. Look for the brew kaiser experiments ... He shows a side by side with and without decoction
     
  16. #16
    homebrewdad

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 2, 2014
    To say that an O-fest NEEDS crystal or roasted malts just feels wrong. If you are trying to be authentic - to either the traditional, darker versions or the newer, lighter "fest beers" - neither of these would be appropriate.

    Decoction will absolutely do it. You could "cheat" with some melanoiden malt, too.
     
  17. #17
    Justdrumin

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Dec 2, 2014
    Not a single decoction, but triple. I've read Kaiser's site through and through actually!! VERY good stuff.
     
  18. #18
    jtratcliff

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted Dec 3, 2014
    Yeah, a triple would add more than a single but the point I was aiming at is that any individual decoction would add only a small color change, so even a triple wouldn't add a *lot* of color. Some color, sure, but I'd bet most of the color comes from the 3 hour boil! Lots of melanoiden production there and some maillard products, too.

    But, then again, maybe something else goes on when decocting three times that you don't get with just once.... Maybe we should talk Kai into doing a new experiment :)
     
  19. #19
    wobdee

    Junior Member

    Posted Dec 3, 2014
    As far as im concerned Its homebrewing, call it whatever you want. Ive never brewed much with Vienna malt. My tastes for an Ofest is 50/50 Pils/Munich which gives me an amber orange color and a nice malty brew. Too much crystal makes it too sweet IMHO.
     
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