Sanke Keg - Which way is the best way clean them?

[haeffnkr]

Hello,
I use Sanke Kegs to ferment in.

My last few batches have a slight wang/infection to them, I am suspecting my fermenter kegs are not clean, and honestly I thought that if I cleaned them right after I pulled out the new beer they would be clean enough.

I now dont trust how I was cleaning them, which was rinsing, rinsing, PBW rinse, rolling, rinsing, etc. When I look into them I can not see the top part of the keg, where of course the krausen ring would be.

I have since read a lot of threads for different CIP systems that use spray balls, but there is a LOT of debate about what pump and PSI are needed to do a good job and finding a pump that can handle hot water.
Some use a modified sanke coupler to blast water up and drain out the gas port, upside down keg of course with air pressure and or pumps or city water pressure
Some people soak them completely full... which I am doing currently cause I dont trust that all the blasting is getting job done.

Not to mention getting an inspection mirror in the keg and light is a pain.
The keg has to cool off and steam removed so the mirror wont fog up so you can see if it is clean... more time spent waiting and aggravation.

I am half tempted to weld 4" plus tri clover fittings to these fermenters so I can easily see into them or use the corny lids fitted to the sanke kegs.

Which is the best way to get these clean and what process/equipment do you use?

thanks Kevin

 

[Hastein]

I don't use mine as fermenters, but after finishing a keg I will rinse it a few times then use a scoop or two of fragrance-free oxiclean and fill it with hot water from the tap. Then I forget about it and come back later that day (its usually still hot after several hours) and rinse, rinse, and rinse some more.

I do the same thing with my carboys and it only takes oxiclean about 15-30 minute to break up all the krausen remnants before I can just rinse it clean.

It sounds like that is similar to what you do, except maybe you are rinsing it with PBW rather than soaking. Since it's stainless you could maybe try oxiclean. Do you think the wang/infection is from sanitation? Perhaps there is an area that isn't getting hit with sanitizer before adding the wort?

Good luck!

 

[haeffnkr]

I think the infection is coming from the Keg/Fermenter that is not completely clean. (I have been lazy and not looked up under the top of the keg... since it a pain)

What do you use to see up under the top of the keg?
Is Oxyclean better than PBW for cleaning sanke kegs?

thanks Kevin

 

[ajdelange]

I got the biggest single phase 220V centrifugal pump (2 HP) I could find in the Grainger catalogue and set it up with some three way valves, check valves and T. I use it to CIP my fermenters and clean kegs. I put together a little stand out of angle on which I invert the keg and I shoot hot caustic up the spear using a regular coupler from which the check valves have been removed with some Sankey to 3A adapter hoses. This recirculates for 15 minutes or so followed by rinse and then a mixture of nitric and phosphoric acids for the beerstone. That seems to do the job. Note that I do not ferment in them - just put beer in them.

 

[Hopper5000]

don't put your wang in the sanke and it probably won't get infected :rockin:

 

[haeffnkr]

I got the biggest single phase 220V centrifugal pump (2 HP) I could find in the Grainger catalogue and set it up with some three way valves, check valves and T. I use it to CIP my fermenters and clean kegs. I put together a little stand out of angle on which I invert the keg and I shoot hot caustic up the spear using a regular coupler from which the check valves have been removed with some Sankey to 3A adapter hoses. This recirculates for 15 minutes or so followed by rinse and then a mixture of nitric and phosphoric acids for the beerstone. That seems to do the job. Note that I do not ferment in them - just put beer in them.

Thanks for explaining your process.
I have read a few other threads about doing this also.
Spraying the bottom of the keg with a 2hp jet of water would seem to almost dent the keg ... wow

Do ever pull the spear out and check them visually to be clean?

thanks Kevin

 

[ajdelange]

Yes but I have several for which I have never done this. It's a bit of a PITA even with the proper tools.

 

[LordUlrich]

Upside down with a water is how the pros do it. You don't need a huge pump, just enough to get a good flow around the whole keg. I suspect a 1/2 HP sump pump would have enough power, based on the size of the pump on the keg washer at my old job.

 

[haeffnkr]

thanks for the replies so far.

I know the pros do it upside down.
Our local brewery has a machine that does it... not sure of the specs and cleaning solutions they use though.

I have a built a keg washer now with a brewers hardware spray ball.
I use this flotec pump.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000FKDLBU/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

I ordered a lighted mirror... using my dental mirror and separate flash light is a pain.

Looking inside of them up under the top, is the biggest pain.
Any one have a good method?

thanks Kevin

 

[ajdelange]

Upside down with a water is how the pros do it. You don't need a huge pump, just enough to get a good flow around the whole keg. I suspect a 1/2 HP sump pump would have enough power, based on the size of the pump on the keg washer at my old job.

Water isn't going to do. You need caustic to get the protein off and then acid for the beerstone. There are commercially made products for doing this job.

As to pump size: the bigger the pump the more vigorous the flow and the better cleaning you will get. Doens't mean you need 2 HP though. I chose that size in order to get spec pressure to the spray balls in my fermenters.

 

[haeffnkr]

AJ - What brand/make up is your caustic cleaner?

Do you use PBW?

thanks Kevin

 

[ajdelange]

I bought a whole bunch of lye from a soap making company and use 1 lb of that in 5 gal of hot water. Use a face shield!

 

[LordUlrich]

Water isn't going to do. You need caustic to get the protein off and then acid for the beerstone. There are commercially made products for doing this job.

As to pump size: the bigger the pump the more vigorous the flow and the better cleaning you will get. Doens't mean you need 2 HP though. I chose that size in order to get spec pressure to the spray balls in my fermenters.

You are right, I should know better than to post at lunch. You want a caustic and then an acid. You can get caustic from a farm store, they use it to clean milk tanks and similar equipment. Watch out though caustic burns are painful and stick around for ever it seems. PBW will also work, takes longer but safer.
Starsan is the best acid cleaner I know of.

 

[haeffnkr]

What is a safe level of lye to add to water and fill a keg with?

By safe I mean, not going to burn me or pit the keg but yet clean the keg.
If that is even possible

thanks Kevin

 

[northcal]

I ferment in sanke's exclusively. Just take a carboy brush to it and scrub the top. Rinse your brush off with the hose and repeat until there's no more yeast on the brush.

Good luck,

 

[ajdelange]

The traditional strength is 1 lb/5 gal. This will do the job but is plenty hazardous. Read MSDS. Wear a face shield.

 

[haeffnkr]

I made this

It does not have a 2hp pump but it does spray all around

It worked great on a few Corny kegs.

I washed my problem sanke keg for 30 minutes with a PBW solution, mixed at 1 oz per gallon at room temp water... it did nothing to the crud in the top of the sanke.

I washed the same keg for over 30 minutes with the same PBW but heated to 150F, the pump was in my eBIAB setup and so it was a constant 150F degrees, and it did not remove the crud. (but did a GREAT job on my element and eBIAB keg)

I have tried to scrub the keg with a brush and no luck either.

So....
Please dont flog me for not using the lye and taking the advice given here, but I am afraid of it.
I have little kids around the house and dont really want to lose any of my eyes or fingers.
So... Do you get a giant hole in your body, or lose and eye if any lye base water mixed at 1 pound per 5 gallons touches you?
I have seen a few pics on this forum and it is scary stuff but I am not sure at what mixture folks got injured.

Can I fill the keg with 5 gallons of water/pbw and a few ounces of lye and let it sit upside down with the spear in?
Or use some sort of lye solution in my keg washer?

thanks Kevin

 

[acidrain]

I made a 90 deg pressure washer tip for about $20. Works great if you already have a pressure washer. Completely cleans a Sanke in about 3 minutes.
If you're having infection problems, clean and sanitize with lye, then clean immediately after each fermentation.

 

[patthebrewer]

This also proably would work, although I don't have one.

http://www.northernbrewer.com/shop/...ssembly.html?gclid=CIy0rP6wyL4CFbTm7AodrWoA2w

I do use a sankey as a fermenter. I soak for a day or two with B-Brite, and hot water (real hot), then I scrap with a carboy brush, rinse, soak in starsan for a day, and pour wort over starsan foam, no infections