Saflager W-34/70, Real World attenuation results?

[Silver_Is_Money]

Fermentis lists this yeast with an apparent attenuation of a whopping 83%. Before I formulate batches for it, what sort of real world attenuation figures are you typically seeing from it for SG's in the general ballpark of 1.055 to 1.065?

 

[passedpawn]

I get 75-80% with a 150F 1-hr german pilsner mash. I've used it many many times. Pitch and ferment 50F - 55F. Ferment 3 weeks.

 

[passedpawn]

I looked in Beersmith. Here's my attenuation for a bunch of different beers I made with 34/70. The German Pilsners are single malt (only pilsener), long and low mash, so they might be the best indicator of attenuation. The others might have less attenuable malt, and might have been higher mash temps.

I have used a lot of different lager yeasts, both dry and liquid. For the German Pilsner, I only use Wyeast Munich Lager now. For dry, you might consider S-189. I used that in a vienna lager in the last year and it was a GREAT beer. Not sure how much of that was the yeast, but the yeast certainly didn't get in the way of the malt flavor in that beer.

German Pilsner: 81, 81, 85
Bohemian Pilsner: 75
Dunkel: 70
OctFest: 79, 74, 79
Standard American lager: 73

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

Great info! Thanks! I think I'll assume 76% for starters in order to be on the safe side. I generally mash at a higher 153-154 degrees.

 

[AllusionsOfGraindeur]

I recently tried this yeast out on a Munich Helles. I used a step mash (131, 140, 149, 158) and a single rehydrated packet. I fermented at 58 F for 7 days, 70 F for 5 days, then crashed.

OG was 1.052
FG was 1.007

Measured attenuation comes out to 85.9%.

I'm very happy with how the beer came out.

 

[dmtaylor]

Fermentis lists this yeast with an apparent attenuation of a whopping 83%. Before I formulate batches for it, what sort of real world attenuation figures are you typically seeing from it for SG's in the general ballpark of 1.055 to 1.065?

I just got 71% on my last batch, OG 1.055, mashed at 151 F for 45 minutes. In past I saw attenuation as low as 60%; HOWEVER, that was also an experimental batch where I only mashed for 30 minutes, which later experience proved is really not long enough (40 minutes is minimum and 45 is "good enough").

 

[Steveruch]

I just brewed a vienna with S-34/70. O G was 1,049 and F G was 1.009: 81%. I got 83% in a pilsner.

 

[505-Brewer]

Have a doppelbock with OG = 1.080 going now with it. Mashed at 150F which was a bit lower than I had planned. Pseudo open fermentation at 53F right now but will add an airlock soon. Will ramp up to 70F for DA rest once near completion. Had a bit of sulfur but now smells bready and clean. Will report back.

 

[Sadu]

I typically get 80-85% for pilsner / helles / schwarzbier. 75%ish for Vienna lager / Oktoberfest. Latest batch is a 1.081 doppelbock that was mashed with a broken thermometer, that finished at 1.028 or sixty something percent but I'm pretty sure this was all due to a high mash.
Even for a bohpils with dextrine malt to raise the FG this yeast attenuates very well for me if you mash low.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

By mashing low, do you mean 150 degrees?

 

[505-Brewer]

I typically get 80-85% for pilsner / helles / schwarzbier. 75%ish for Vienna lager / Oktoberfest. Latest batch is a 1.081 doppelbock that was mashed with a broken thermometer, that finished at 1.028 or sixty something percent but I'm pretty sure this was all due to a high mash.
Even for a bohpils with dextrine malt to raise the FG this yeast attenuates very well for me if you mash low.

80% would be great. Right at the low end of finishing gravity for the style. 1.014-1.016.

 

[dmtaylor]

A little sidebar:

Overall I think we're all noticing lower attenuation with beers that have a large contribution (30% or more) Munich malt. Munich just seems to be less fermentable because it is more highly kilned, with a higher denaturing of starches and enzymes. Make a mental note of this.

Also, clearly, my low mash time of just 40-45 minutes is indeed impacting attenuation even more than I'd originally thought. However, it still doesn't really change my conclusion that this amount of mash time is still pretty much "good enough".

 

[Patrick87]

I've finished three lagers with 34/70 so far (more on the way) and I've gotten 83% attenuation with the two that used Breiss Pilsen DME, and 86% with an IPL that used Munton's Light DME.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

It's beginning to look like 83% is about right for light colored lagers.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

It looks like I'm on the road to about 73-76% attenuation. Not quite done fermenting yet, but close. Down to only about 1 bubble per minute, and currently in the diacetyl rest phase.

 

[KeninMN]

I got 85% on a Czech Pils and 89% on a Munich Helles, both mashed at 151 F.

 

[Patrick87]

Kegged a simple American Pilsner last night. 83% attenuation with Briess Pils DME/34-70.

 

[E_Rock]

81% with 34/70 on a German pilsner. Got the same attenuation with S-23, but I don't like it as much.

 

[seabrew8]

I just got %85 with the Sitzung helles recipe online. I did miss my OG a lot but its basically what i done.

Super smooth beer!!

 

[Morrey]

I have spent all of my time and energy focusing on specific liquid yeast strains for lagers. In all of these brews, not once have I tried a dry lager yeast. For ales I often use US-05 so I am not opposed to trying a yeast like 34/70. Is this something that gives good results and maybe I am simply overlooking something simple and easy?

 

[dmtaylor]

I have spent all of my time and energy focusing on specific liquid yeast strains for lagers. In all of these brews, not once have I tried a dry lager yeast. For ales I often use US-05 so I am not opposed to trying a yeast like 34/70. Is this something that gives good results and maybe I am simply overlooking something simple and easy?

I have gotten much better results out of 2206 and 2308 than I have from W-34/70. In my opinion, you're not missing much. However, most people love the stuff so I would encourage you to try it for yourself to see if you are one of those who likes it. Dry yeast surely is a lot easier to use and keeps longer in the refrigerator.

 

[Morrey]

I have gotten much better results out of 2206 and 2308 than I have from W-34/70. In my opinion, you're not missing much. However, most people love the stuff so I would encourage you to try it for yourself to see if you are one of those who likes it. Dry yeast surely is a lot easier to use and keeps longer in the refrigerator.

One additional factor, Dave, is I am upping the anti from 5.5G to 11G batches with a new uni tank. This means I have to make a darn boatload of liquid starter plus use multiple packs of yeast to get a pitchable cell count. Then crash and decant since I don't want a gallon of spent wort in the beer. All of this is making me look at dry yeast as an option.

However, none of the time or money savings means much if the dry yeast produces what I call less then stellar results. Probably do a small batch with 34/70 and compare to one of the liquid strains I depend on.

 

[dmtaylor]

none of the time or money savings means much if the dry yeast produces what I call less then stellar results. Probably do a small batch with 34/70 and compare to one of the liquid strains I depend on.

That would be a good plan.

Other options are out there too. I hear good things about S-189 and K-97, but haven't tried either one quite yet. W-34/70 is okay, but does produce some fruity esters. Denny Conn tells everyone to stay far away from S-23 for the same reason, lots of esters, so based on that I will probably never try that one.

 

[seabrew8]

I've used 34/70 around 10-12x now every batch didn't matter the og - fg finished at 1.008-1.010. I ferment around 65f.

 

[Silver_Is_Money]

My most recent batch of Bohemian Pilsner had an apparent attenuation of 81.1% using W-34/70.

 

[Morrey]

I've used 34/70 around 10-12x now every batch didn't matter the og - fg finished at 1.008-1.010. I ferment around 65f.

Being on the warmer side of fermentation, how do you evaluate the esters being produced by this yeast? Have you tried fermenting cooler, and if so, was the flavor more neutral?

 

[YeastFace]

Apologies for the thread necromancy, but thought I would add my 2p.

Using WHC Einstein (likely repacked 34/70) in a Munich Dunkel.

OG: 1.056, FG: 1.014, Att: 74.1%.

Proper pitch rate, but a high percentage of Munich Malts, this would tie in with some of the comments above.

 

[AmarikinBrew]

IDK but a pattern emerges here. The more the malt is kilned the less the attenuation is. -Hell I sound like a drunk YODA

 

[MaxStout]

I just brewed 2 lagers, single infusion 150F, pitched 34/70. Both with half Pilsner and Munich for the base, but second beer had 4.7% Caramunich and 1.2% Carafa III. Both in the same ferm chamber, 57F for 4 days, up to 65F for D-rest and held there for 2 weeks, lagered at 35 for 2 weeks and bottled. OG 1.059 and 1.053, both finished at 1.010, so 83% and 81%, respectively. Beersmith predicted 1.014 and 1.012, respectively.