Reusing yeast

I'm getting ready to brew a consecutive batch that I can use the same style yeast. My beer is still in the primary from the first batch.

Ive never reused a yeast before. What's the best method? Thanks in advance, Ken

 

The best method is determined by cage match. The sponsors of a given method are given blunt weapons and fight to the death.

There are many posts about this and you would probably be best served reading a few to figure out which apply to your specific situation.

I would seriously consider just dumping the new batch right on top of the cake from previous batch but this may not always be the best.....like if your last batch was a double chocolate bacon stout that you Oaked.....I wouldn't reuse it for my kolsch.

Brew on!

 

I'm going from a Red Rye PA to an Octoberfest. It is an American Ale yeast as I don't have a way to Lager the Octoberfest. Any thoughts?

 

+1

 

I say go for it! If the worst thing that happens to that Oktoberfest is that it lands on a cake from a rye pale ale then I would be quite happy to drink it with you when the time comes.

1 common suggestion is that you avoid pitching "delicate" beers onto a cake from an aggressive beer (see earlier reference to reusing a cake from an Oaked double chocolate bacon stout). I don't think you're really guilty of that in this case so go crazy. It makes for great discussion when explaining to others about the making of Oktoberfest.

Brew on!

 

Maybe pour off half the old yeast cake (and save it for a different batch) so you won't start with so much old trub and yeast.

 

Do it!

My Oktoberbeast Ale is sitting on a yeast-cake made up of the Notty I used on my last batch (a blonde) and I plan on pouring the wort I brew next (from an RIS) right on top of this yeast cake. That will be all for that half-a-pack of hydrated Nottingham, however.

 

Don't do it!

Seriously though, I have re-used the "harvested" yeast from previous batches at least 4-5 times this year, but I am always paranoid about the outcome - it has turned out just fine, but in the end I am leaning towards that it's not worth the effort. You may be ok if your sanitizing practices are impeccable and if you re-use the yeast soon afterwards.

But my general feeling now, after experimenting with this for a bit - it may not be worth the effort. You need to make sure no bugs get in, and be very careful about how you harvest it, how you wash it, how you keep it etc. You probably have no idea about how much of that "harvest" to pitch, and you are probably pitching a lot of dead yeast, and perhaps over- or under-pitching by a lot.

You will be spending a lot of time doing this, if you want to do this right. All to save $6.99 or so in yeast purchases, and risking ruining your entire batch. And what if your new recipe calls for a different kind of yeast?

I love experimenting, but after all the effort, I may be just getting a vial of yeast in the future, having a starter going and doing it in risk-averse fashion. Your beer and your tastebuds will thank you.

 

It's not a big deal and it's not a big risk. $7 isn't much but 5 repitches = $35 worth of yeast.

I rarely do subsequent brews that use the same yeast but when I have there have been no issues.

 

Why not yeast washing.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=41768

Once I wash then I break them down into small 50ml tubes and freeze them like this.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/freezing-yeast.html

Works great for me. Turned $6.99 into $100 worth of yeast.

 

As mentioned above: if the previous beer wasn't hugely alcoholic, and it's successor isn't terribly mild mannered, just dump it on the cake.

 

It's more of screwing around and having some fun than saving the money. My local Homebrew shop has the Octoberfest kit on sale for $20 right now.

 

When I bottle I pour the trub/yeast cake into a sanitised jar, screw the lid on and put it in the fridge. When I pitch I sanitise a table spoon and take two scoops of the trub/yeast cake and throw it into the fermenter.

The fermentation has gone well every time I have tried it and all the beers have tasted fine at bottling.

I won't do it with yeast that has been in the fridge for more than 3 months though.

Some (a small proportion) of these batches have however come out foul after a bit of bottle conditioning. From what I read about autolysis it's a similar flavour, but then what I have read about autolysis is that its highly unlikely in homebrewing - i think i had some bad lunch with my sanitation at bottling.

 

I've never pitched fresh wort on an entire yeast cake. From what I understand, if you do, you should make sure the beers are at least similar in style and the new batch of wort being poured onto the yeast cake is AT LEAST as high an OG (if not higher) than the OG of the cake. For example, brew a pale ale at 4.5% and then brew Dead Ringer IPA at 6.5% and dump the Dead Ringer wort onto the cake from the pale ale. Which strain of yeast did you use for the Rye? Will it be a good one to match with the Oktoberfest? The two Oktoberfests I made with "ale" yeasts were done with WYeast 1007 and WYeast 2112. Both did well. 2112 is really a hybrid yeast, but it did fine in the mid 60's. Personally, I'd wash and harvest the yeast, pour off into several mason jars, make a starter with one of the mason jars and pitch that. That's what I've been doing with brew since mid 2014 and have always had beer that finished at least 1.014 and pretty mild lag times.

 

I just started back brewing after several years off. Like a rookie I didn't log the number that was on the yeast so I can't tell you the strain. I'd have to stop by the shop. It was an American Ale smack pack but I'm not sure of the numbers on it if that helps. I'll probably just spend the $6 on a fresh pack and do some more research before giving it a shot.

 

My GUESS - if it was a dry yeast - was that it was Safale 05. You're probably safest just doing what you say - buying new yeast since you're not even sure of the strain. Even if you pitched a safe amount, it could result in a funky flavor if the strain doesn't go well with the ingredients. Good call

 

It was a liquid smack pack. I'd ask the guys at the shop before I did it. They log every purchase into their computer.

 

...and the cage match begins! Where"s my blunt weapon?

 

The package was still in the basement garbage. It was a 1056 American Ale yeast. Would this change any opinions?

 

Yooper, do you ever save/reuse dry strains?

 

I re-use dry US05 and Notty with great success. "Yeast Washing Explained" thread here on HBT is good. Need mason jars.

 

I agree with that sentiment. Perhaps my tongue-in-cheeck "Don't do it!" counter-argument post was a bit over the top. Do it, but be careful/thoughtful about the process and do it to learn about yeast, not just to save money.

I do reuse the yeast myself - last 3 or 4 batches I re-used WLP-001 for my brews, even though I had to get a new vial of yeast for two recent batches - rye saison (French Saison yeast) and oatmeal stout (Irish Ale yeast) - those I may not re-use any time soon since I don't brew those styles enough, so I didn't bother harvesting it (should I have?).

But for anyone relatively new to home brewing - as I was when I did it first, they need to understand the tradeoffs and maybe even risks. Namely - this has to be the right kind of yeast, and it has to be reasonably fresh, unless you freeze it properly which is a whole different can of worms. You need to be very meticulous about the process of sanitizing/washing yeast, understanding what is happening, as well as storage/record keeping. You need to understand that viability will drop with time during storage, and be good at "guesstimating" the cell count, to pitch at the right rate.

As Yooper said (who am I to argue with her?) - you can save some substantial $ if you brew regularly and re-use or propagate the basic type of yeast that is compatible with your recipes. $7 or so per vial can add up over many batches. But a single ruined (or somewhat taste-compromised) batch can easily negate 10 batches of yeast savings, especially if you take into account the labor that went into making it. This has never happened to me yet (knock on wood), and it could easily happen from other things, but that's something to keep in mind when reusing yeast.

It is fun though!

 

I'm just wondering if the 1007 some of u recommended might be better than the one I was going to use. I could still save some of this 1056 American Ale for the batch after I guess.....Yooper any comments on these strains?

 

So what would you use for an Octoberfest but using an ale yeast and temperatures?

 

the "simple yeast storage procedure" sticky is the initial way to go. after doing that, you may want to wash for longer storage.

 

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1438637878.663549.jpg View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1438637888.861066.jpg

I harvested this US-04. Is the sediment on the bottom yeast? If so how do tell how much to pitch for the next batch?

 

Yes. the bottom white-ish layer is your good yeast. If you look carefully, there may be a stratification into a slightly darker layer at the very bottom, this is dead yeast and proteins and other "junk" you don't want.

I would say you could be close to 1 billion cells per 1 ml. But it's just a guess.

https://www.wyeastlab.com/com-yeast-harvest.cfm

 

I'm planning to save the S-04 sediment from my current batch to use in the next. So I'm kind of thinking out-loud here more than answering the question...

How long did it take for those jars to settle? The stuff in the bottom is hops, coagulated malt proteins, dead yeast, live yeast, and I don't know what all. The cloudy liquid above is cloudy because it has yeast in it (both dead and alive) and other particles that haven't settled out yet. If you let it sit long enough the liquid on top will clear nice and bright.

What I'm planning to do (unless I learn otherwise from this thread) is when I get ready to pitch the yeast, I'll shake up one of the jars, let it settle for an hour or so (as it warms to room temperature), then use the cloudy liquid at the top and discard the sediment. I know i won't be able to pour it w/o getting some sediment, but that's okay. You could even just shake the jar and dump the whole thing in,

 

I assume he waited long enough to separate (a few hours) perhaps even refrigerated overnight?
Unsettled yeast should be more milky in appearance, his looks like just beer at the top layer and settled yeast slurry at the bottom.

Also see:
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=353073

 

I thought your lower layers were sediment? Isn't that how yeast washing works?

 

The bigger and heavier stuff settles out first. The yeast is small and light so it settles slower than the hops and hot break, etc. Eventually almost all of it drops out, with the yeast towards the top. I don't know how long that takes.

 

One of the best explanations I have yet encountered on harvesting and re-pitching was the episode of "Brew Strong" devoted to this topic.

 

My last couple of batches were repitched yeast, I didn't save that much liquid, but what I did brought it up to room temperature, shook it, and poured it into the fermenter. I used about a half a quart each time. It worked great, my attenuation was over 90%. I didn't wash ore anything prior, just load up some sanitary mason jars.

 

Thanks for the explanation and the link