Professional whirlpooling

I've been listening to a lot of Can You Brew It podcasts recently, and the professional brewers always mention "whirlpool additions" or the "whirlpool" stage after the boil. I understand this is a process meant to separate the trub, hops, and break material from the wort, but how does it work on a professional scale? I read the posts here about how to do it at home, but I suspect the process is different when the volume of wort is much larger.

Anyone have a link to an explanation of a professional brewer's whirlpool process? Thanks!

 

I believe the most common practice is to use the Miller Vortex bottle.

 

Well played.

 

The main difference between doing it at home and a commercial brewery is that the commercial brewery usually has a separate vessel for doing the whirlpool.

 

After the boil, the wort is transferred to a whirlpool vessel. The inlet on this vessel is situated in a way that the whirlpool action is created from the wort entering. Hops can be added to this vessel. The wort will rest for a set amount of time, which will vary based on brewery/recipe. When the rest is finished the wort will exit to the heat exchanger(chiller). There can be 2 different outlets. One higher up to avoid disturbing the trub, and one that is lower that will get the wort from the bottom of the tank.

 

One could conceivably set up their HLT as a whirlpool tank and pump from the BK back to the HLT. Not sure what this would gain over whirlpooling back into the BK though.

 

Isn't "professional" whirlpooling done in a heated vessel?

 

No. At least not the ones I am familiar with.. I don't think that there would be much benifit to having them heated.

 

Stone does it.

 

I'll be going there hopefully on the tour next weekend so maybe I'll ask why they heat it

 

Processes vary from place to place. Where I work it is not heated. I guess the advantage would be to maintain a high temp? Maybe they do extended rests and don't want to loose to much temp? Not sure.

 

At the brewery I worked at the whirlpool was done in the boil kettle. This was done at the end of the boil but it was NOT transferred to another vessel.

There was an outlet at the bottom off-centre that fed into a pump. The wort was pumped into a venturi that entered the upper part of the boil kettle at a tangent thereby spinning/whirlpooling the wort. A half hour of this and a half hour rest and then you were ready to cool in.

The wort exited the boil kettle from the same port for exiting to whirlpool but was diverted with valves to the heat exchanger. There was a small shield-type wall in front of the exit port in the boil kettle to reduce the amount of trub going to cooling in.

What we were left with was a "dome" of trub in the bottom of the boil kettle. Then the cleaning began! Woohoo!!

Just one more brewery's example.

 

Whirlpool Tanks

The whirlpool tank is the most widely used method for hot trub removal, particularly in breweries that use hop pellets, powder, and extracts. Whirlpool tanks come in various designs, and opinions vary as to the best geometry. Some call for a conical bottom, some a slightly welled bottom, and still others prescribe a flat or even an inverted cone bottom. The original whirlpools were constructed to have a height-to-diameter ratio of 1:1. Although this ratio remains the more popular of geometries, later whirlpool designs have ranged from very shallow (0.6:2), to accommodate the trub associated with hop powders, to tall (3:2).

The wort usually enters the tank tangentially at speeds between 13 and 50 ft/s (see Figure 3); faster wort flows result in better trub separation (4). Placing a ping pong ball on the outside surface of the whirling wort will give you an idea of the speed your wort is moving. You can calculate the speed by first determining the inner circumference of your whirlpool tank (circumference = pi X diameter). By counting the number of revolutions in a fixed period of time (20 seconds, for example), you can calculate the distance covered per second (rate = [circumference X number of revolutions]/number of second measured).

In general, the effectiveness of whirlpools decreases as the original gravity of the wort increases because the relative difference in density between the trub particles and the wort decreases. Injecting carbon dioxide into the wort as it goes to the whirlpool has been shown to increase the amount of trub deposited (3).

To minimize oxygen uptake in a whirlpool, the inlet should be placed one-quarter to one-third of the way from the tank bottom (see Figure 3). The rotation about the vertical axis should continue for 20-40 min after the wort is in the tank. As the whirling action slows, the trub, which is heavier than beer, forms a fairly hard conical cake at the center of the bottom of the tank. If the time the wort is left standing is too short, separation will be incomplete; too long a stand, and the risk of infection rises and the breakdown of S-methyl-methionine continues, raising dimethyl sulfide levels.

The whirlpool tank is fitted with one or more take-off points (some with interchangeable standpipes that can be sized for particular beer styles), so that the clarified wort can be discharged to the heat exchanger, leaving the trub behind. By having more than one discharge point, the wort can be removed with minimal turbulence, leaving the trub cake intact and resulting in a clearer wort. The trub is then flushed down a center drain, fitted with a valve that is usually twice the size of the wort outlet.

Some breweries have a combination kettle-whirlpool, with essentially the same properties of the dedicated whirlpool. Unfortunately, the presence of kettle baffles or an agitation propeller will completely disrupt the whirling action, making a combination kettle-whirlpool impossible. If the kettle has no baffles and the kettle agitator is equipped with a high-power, high-speed motor with an inverter and a clutched gear drive, the wort can be whirled using the agitator. When the desired whirling action is reached, the agitator can be turned off, activating a clutch and allowing the propeller to turn freely with the wort. Alternatively, the wort is discharged from the bottom of the kettle and pumped back into the kettle tangentially. Pumping this way for 15-20 min will create a whirlpool. In either case, when the whirling subsides and the trub cake has formed, the clear wort can be pumped from a port above the trub cone.

Advantages of the combination system include reduced oxygen uptake, because no wort transfer is necessary. It also saves time and eliminates the need for a separate whirlpool tank. On the other hand, because of necessary engineering compromises, it is unlikely to be quite as effective as a dedicated whirlpool. For it to work at all, it must be carefully engineered.

 

Nice post.

One of the things that I love is how every place has their own way of doing this. Keeps it interesting.

 

Most brewpub and smaller regional/packaging systems use a combination kettle/whirlpool tank. It is very much as pcollins described. Only very old or very, very large systems use a separate whirlpool tank these days.

The same sort of system can be easily done in a keggle with a pump. Here is a picture of my whirlpool fitting in my keggle.



Since I took this photo, I reversed the placement of the outlet and inlet fittings. I have been getting a very tight packed trub cone. No need to whirlpool for 30 minutes and rest for 30. I whirlpool for 10 and rest for 5.

 

That looks like a really nice set up. Do you have any problems with the fittings causing turbulence/disturbance during the whirlpool?

Times vary due to volume. 12.5hl takes a little time to get going and to stop, like a train.

 

My setup is equipped with a separate whirlpool tank to free up the brew kettle for multiple brew sessions.
To this day I have never made multiple brew sessions.
Whirlpool tank #6

My tank is close to the 1:1 ratio

The inlet is placed close to 1/3 from the tank bottom


Inside view

Single take-off point


Cheers,
ClaudiusB

 

Now that is what I call homebrewing CB!

 

DME Brewing Systems (at least the 10bbl brew house) has the whirlpool built in to the kettle. You run the kettle down to the wort pump and hook the pump up to a whirlpool inlet on the kettle that is higher up. After draining you end up with a large pile of hops in the middle of the kettle.

 

ClaudiusB has the right of it. In older, larger systems, the whirlpool tank was needed to keep the beer flowing. On system that operate 24/7 with many brews being done throughout the day, a separate tank is useful. For doing a single brew in a day, you really don't need it.

I have brewed on a variety of systems during my professional brewing days. For 10hL to 50 bbl kettles. They all had tangential inlets in the kettle for whirlpooling. I always whirlpooled for 10 minutes and rested for 5. Techniques do vary.

I have had excellent results with my kettle since I switched my inlet and outlet fittings about. I purchased my whirlpool fitting from Wayne at BargainFittings.com. He bent the tubing to conform to my keggle.

I have more information about the fittings on this thread.

An alternative would be to get a kettle built by Stout tanks that uses a true tangential inlet.



I believe he offers many options and sizes for custom kettles.

brew kettles

 

Please excuse my naivety, but is a whirlpool tank actually required on a production scale? I'm soliciting quotes on a 15 BBL system and a whirlpool tank was included. Thanks.

 

As was stated earlier in the thread, unless you are planning to brew multiple batches a day, there really isn't a need for a separate whirlpool tank.

Most systems at 15 bbl use the brewkettle to whirlpool.

Check with reputable brewery manufacturers such as Newlands http://www.nsibrew.com/ or Specific Mechanical http://specificmechanical.com/

If you wish a consultant to help you select a brewery, I'm available for hire

 

I have a quick question. I always read about how great whirl pooling is, but I also always hear about getting your wort temps down as fast as possible. If you whirlpool, rest, and then cool, does that effect your cold break?

 

Professional brewing literature recommends cooling hot wort to pitching temperature (or at least below 140F) within 20 - 30 minutes of flame-out.

Standing hot wort will continue to convert SMS to DMS but the rate of conversion after a 60 minute boil is greatly exaggerated by many homebrewers.

 

Hey Wayne, I assume you get a good whrilpool going with that setup, I really like that!! I've found out that need to modify mine as I don't get good whirlpooling at all. What pump and fittings do you use? I don't think I'm getting enough volume with the 1/4" copper and the little Chugger pump. With that 3/8" piping, I'm sure you get a LOT more volume.

 

I use two March 809 pumps.

I recently went through and changed out most of the fittings that might restrict my fluid flow. I use the Camlock quick disconnects. I changed out all the female connectors on my hoses to straight pipe thread instead of the hose barbs. I changed the input connectors on my pumps to the true 1/2" hose barbs from Brewers Hardware. I rerouted my inlets to my pumps to make sure I had a smooth flow with no 90 degree bends within a foot of the inlet.

The flow rate did improve. I recently have been running the kettle outlet into my CFC chiller and then back into the kettle. I still get a whirlpool and I do see cold break in the center of the whirlpool after the wort has been drained.

I need to make one of the recent recipes again using my old standard whirlpool and then cool to compare the flavor.

At some point, I may replace my 3/8" copper CFC with 1/2" stainless steel. I should get some good flow then.

 

Awesome, thank you for the information!

 

gridlocked,

Two things about your pump setup. First, remove the 90 from your input. The directions for the pumps say not to have any sharp bends within 2.5 " on the inlet fitting.

Second, rotate your pump head 90 degrees so the inlet and outlet fittings are parallel to the floor. If you look inside your pump head you will see that the outlet is between the inlet and outlet fittings. In your orientation, it is possible for air to get trapped in the pump head and cause cavitation.

 

Wayne,
No kidding, thank you! I actually had the pump head removed and rotated before they went onto the stand but I assumed that it would be easier to get the air out of the pumps if the liquid went in the bottom and slowly up toward the outlet side, forcing the air out with it. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "If you look inside your pump head you will see that the outlet is between the inlet and outlet fittings.", though - but I will have a look.

I did have some problems with getting and maintaining a good prime during my last batch, so I will give that a try.

While I have you - when you replaced the female quick-connectors on your hoses from barbed fittings to pipe thread, did you have much trouble getting the silicon tubing around the threads? I suppose they will need to be clamped, correct?

 

Here is a picture of one of my hoses with the MPT fitting. I had no trouble fitting the silicone over the threaded section. I used stainless steel wire fastened with the Clamp Tite Tool

I have gradually been replacing all of the hose clamps in the system with single or double wire fastened with the Clamp Tite Tool.

FWIW, here is a current photo of my kettle showing the whirlpool fitting in the correct position.

 

Glad I found this thread. I currently use a 1/2" ring made out of copper tubeing that tee's into my keggle drain. The ring has slits cut in the bottom (like my mash tun manifold) around it's parameter, and rides about 1/2" from the keggle wall as it hugs the bottom. I have had no problems to speak of with the ring clogging, But I also use a hop spider/paint strainer bag to keep much of the pelllet hops out of the keggle. I think I will adapt this whirlpool techique to my process.

Now to get out the drill, and online to Bargain Fittings

 

Great Post

I see one problem with the set up of having the single inlet 1/3 from the bottom. The cold return from the chiller will be pumped into the bottom of the keg. That will make the cooling efficiency far from optimal. It would be best to have cold wort return to the top and the hot wort leave from the bottom.

My suggestion is to have two inlets to the pot/keggle. One at the top and one a 1/3 from bottom. both are connected from the outside of the keggle with a valve on the top one to control flow.



All you need to do is open or close the valve to allow flow to focus on both inlets or just on the bottom inlet (I would expect when fully open the flow would focus on top inlet).

I believe this should allow for optimal cooling flow and whirlpooling.

What do you guys think?

 

I understand what you're trying to do but with two inlets being fed from the same pump the flow is going to default to the lower inlet regardless of the setting of the valve on the top inlet. You may have a different result with the valve on the lower inlet but then it might affect the effectiveness of the whirlpool.

 

I would have thought that the volume of wort in the keg would make the path of least resistance at the top valve.

Damn laws of physics.

That said, if the valve is at the bottom, then why do you say the whirlpool would be affected?

If it is fully open then it would not flow from top right?

 

I was thinking that if the valve was at the bottom and not fully open you might have flow to both inlets but you may not have enough flow to create a good whirlpool. With the valve at the bottom and fully open and wort flowing only through the lower inlet you would have enough flow to create a good whirlpool.

I'm happy to be proven wrong. LOL

 

Got ya.

My thought was that I would partially close the valve during the cooling process and then fully open for whirlpool at the end.

I'll keep you posted

 

I whirlpool 10 gallon batches with a side pick up and whirlpool fittings from bargain fittings and a chugger pump with no problems. Temp changes while chilling through a plate chiller and whirlpooling are less than 2° between the top and bottom. My fittings are both at the bottom and everything (except the dip tubes) are 1/2". I love the setup!

 

Do you ever find that your Chugger pump locks up/stalls at the higher temps ?? Mine seems to do that frequently, and I have to shut it down to cool off.

 

No problems with the chugger. I get the occasional bubble which is fixed by either squeezing the hose (heehee) or turning the pump off and back on. I have the pump plugged into a wireless remote so it's as hard as locking your car with a key fob.

 

Oregon, do you think your system cools as fast as having the pump return at a higher point in the keggle, or is the whirlpool dynamic creating a good enough movement throughout the kettle?

There is a good explanation of how a whirlpool moves fluid at:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Whirlpooling

Also, is there any point to whirlpool throughout the entire boil process?
Would it help hop efficiency?