Plastic PVC Pipe 5 gal mini keg

OK, call me crazy....or maybe others have already tried this!

Yesterday, while walking through Home Depot I noticed the 6 inch wide PVC pipe used for water lines. The stuff has walls that look to be over 1/4 inch thick. I cannot drink beer that is very carbonated. In fact, have to pour the beer back and forth until I remove the carbonation.

You can purchase this pipe with component to create a permanently seal on one end and a screw top on the top. My thought, cut one to a length to hold five gallons plus some head space. Seal the bottom & use a screw top on the other end. Add a tap. Prime very lightly when adding beer.

Your thoughts? This would surely beat bottling and still not have to make large batches as it is just for me.

 

a. i think you would want to use CPVC
b. it may retain smells of the different beers since it is not stainless

 

I'd worry about leaching of chemicals, if the plastic you use is foodgrade (including the liquid weld) and whether or not the joints would hold the pressure...But if someone tries it and it works, it would be awesome!

 

Devil is in the details.

Can you make it for under the $18 - $25 you can sometimes get for a cornie?

 

Better yet, can you make it for less than the price of a 3 liter bottle of walmart cola? Also, no matter how much carbonation you add, the pour is eventually going to slow down and the carbonation level is going to drop if you wait a day or so between pours.

 

With GERD I cannot drink beers that are carbonated without first pouring back and forth to remove the carbonation. However, in other parts of the world drinking ales with virtually no carbonation and at room temperature is standard. If the stuff is made to transport water I would think it safe as it has been used for years in home plumbing. The walls are VERY thick on the larger diameters. Construction would be a breeze. It would last a long time and be easy to clean. Really, the closest thing to work would be adding the tap. The cost to build several for five gallon batches would be VERY low. One could even build a simple rack to hold several.

 

It is an interesting concept. Definately keep us up to date on how it goes and post some pics if you build one.

 

I think you're smoking when you say the cost would be VERY cheap. Have you priced out the cost of 6" PVC and associated fittings? Just one one-gallon keg made with these materials would cost more than a 5 gallon stainless corny.

 

Do you intend to pour/gravity feed your tap? It sounds like it.

 

Hmm I don't see why it wouldn't work pvc is used for water line so it shouldn't leach chemicals into the beer and as far as the glue being able to hold the pressure I'm sure it is capable. I have used pvc for air line in shops and it can withstand pressures exceeding 100psi. You might see if you can find some scraps from a construction site just talk to the foreman I'm sure they would be more than willing to give you end pieces of PVC, they just throw them away anyway. I should think you could build one for under $25 bucks if you can get scrap.

 

If the caps alone were under $5 per, I'd be shocked.

 

Just a 6" glue on cap alone is $14. To make the end open/close you'll need a male adapter with a threaded cap or vice versa. That's another $20. See where this is going? Sorry to poo poo the idea but there are a lot of better alternatives for less money.

 

PVC should not be used for compressed air OSHA warns against it

Do NOT use PVC pipe for compressed air

"PVC piping is relatively inexpensive, easy to install, lightweight, and corrosion resistant. However, PVC has one major drawback. It is brittle. An inadvertent impact could cause the piping to shatter, endangering surrounding personnel. Most PVC pipe manufacturers warn against using PVC for compressed air service due to potential liability from such failures. The Plastic Piping Institute, in their Recommendation B, states that plastic piping used for compressed air transport in above-ground systems should be protected in shatter-proof encasements, unless otherwise recommended by the manufacturer. In many states, the Occupational Health and Safety Administration (OSHA) has stepped in and regulated against using brittle plastics such as PVC in these applications, and additional states are following suit."


I have witnessed it fail in a body shop. Not pretty

 

To the OP:
You can use standard homebrewing kegging equipment and use beer gas (mixture of CO2 and Nitrogen) to push beer. This mix will not carbonate the beer appreciably.

 

It might not work because beer is more acidic and alcoholic than water.

 

PVC is not used for drinking water, it is used for drainage plumbing. CPVC is used for drinking water. PVC will leach chemicals into your beer. If you choose to go this route, you MUST use CPVC, which states for potable water use on the pipe, many people use this for their MLT manifold. And I am not sure if they have CPVC in the same diameter as PVC.

 

Which goes to once again remind me of my long held belief, "When you need a plumber, CALL A PLUMBER!" I wouldn't know a PVC from a CPVC. OK, Sanity check time...I just hate the whole hassle of BOTTLES. What is the most cost effective alternative. I do NOT want carbonated beer, just a simple means to store and dispense a brew in bulk and at room temp.

 

2 liter soda bottles will work fine. You may also want to search for "party pig", may suite your need nicely.

 

Oh I knew the safety of using pvc ranting would ensue, but come on guys your looking at probably 30-40 psi max I don't think there is anything to worry when it comes to making a keg out of it. Also I don't know about the acidity of beer that could be different but pvc is used all the time for potable water pipe you shouldn't use it for higher temps that is where CPVC comes in it can be used for hot water supply.

 

What comes to mind as a cost effective alternative for 5-6gal batches would be a food grade bucket with a screw top lid. There are some homebrew supplies stores that have them. With the screw-type lid, it might hold positive pressure better than a normal bucket. Then put in your own spigot if it doesn't come with one. Price: $10-15 + spigot price.

Food grade, cheap, low pressure quality and used for beer already.

You could try a bottling bucket(+spigot) with a normal lid and attach a CO2 connection. Then test how much pressure is needed to keep beer flowing but not leak CO2.

Just a thought.

 

i'd love to see it done....Like so much about this hobby, it's one of those things that you won't know if it works, until you try it....

Someone today was looking for a stainless pin...It would be neat to have something like this for a party...gravity fed...Maybe mad to look like an old wood barrel.

 

Or this....

 

Making a pin would be an awesome idea I just may have to try and make one.

 

Yeah, carb or not, the main concern is going to be oxidation. What you really want is a regular keg system run at low psi or beer gas as olllllo mentioned. If you don't mind moderate bulk amount that should be consumed in 1-5 day increments, 2 liter bottles are you answer. You have the advantage of not worrying about carb loss.

 

If you use gravity feed, you still will have to use an inert gas (oh I don't know...beer gas) to top off to prevent oxidation unless you plan on drinking all of it in a few days.

You can use an inverted corny keg to gravity fee. Use the gas tube to dispense and the beer tube as the breather. Close it up and top off with gas.

 

Corny®... Still your best value!

 

in the situation of the plastic keg its a not a big deal I was responding to the use of for compressed air in garages

 

This is actually one of those situations where the cheap CO2 charger would be a good value. I'd suspect you'd only go through a couple cartidges per keg in this arrangement.

 

Mensplace, I know the concern of oxidation with beer engines, but you might find this thread interesting: http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f35/fellow-homebrewers-meet-my-new-beer-engine-10529/

Like olllllo was saying, you can always displace the oxygen with Co2 when you are finished dispensing.

 

You can also just set the CO2 at a very low pressure say 1-2PSI that way you do not have to worry about oxidation I believe some people do it on here with their beer engines.

 

Curious. In England it wasn't until the American Air Corps wanted Lagers that CO2 and "fizzy" bear were introduced. Before that, there was Ale, Porter, & Stout...much of which was essentially flat, pumped, and often served from pitchers. For hundreds of years there were no pressurized kegs or worry about headspace. In a small country pub ale had to sit in the vats for some while. Have we gotten too technical or could the assumption that the beer would go off quickly without gas be an assumption. If live, sealed and primed wouldn't there be CO2 in the keg naturally? How did the beer thrive around the world for so many hundreds of years without CO2 and pressurized kegs?

 

In my opinion, a cask of beer in a pub was consumed rather quickly, maybe over the course of a week. I have a 5-keg system and one of the tapped beers in there has been tapped for 9 months and it's still good. If you drink 5 pints a day and pull off the same keg, you'll be ok with an open breather (maybe with a hepa filter on it).

 

PVC is just fine for water. CPVC is for hot water. PVC is very seldom used for DWV (drain/waste/vent) except in exposed locations where appearance is important (under-sink P traps, etc.) because it's expensive -- or, at any rate, more expensive than black ABS plastic.

So the idea should work ... not sure about the alcohol, though; that might cause some leaching issues. I'm not a big fan of plastics for food contact, myself.

The big advantage I could see in this would be the ability to custom-build these kegs so a dozen or so fit in a standard fridge without all the wasted space above and below and between that you get with cornies. I can fit four cornies (barely) in my Lucas Kegerator ... I bet I could get 12 of those little 6" PVC kegs in it, each holding probably the same five gallons. A threefold increase in available beer slots ... hoo chee mama ...

But, as you say, likely not worth the time and trouble. I could probably buy another frig off Craigslist, stock it with Cornies and outfit it with four taps and a drip tray for what it would cost to do this.

 

Cost-wise, I think this idea could be killed. To satisfy the needs of the OP, there have been other suggestions.

IMHO bottling is still one of the best methods other than kegging of course. Either way you could vary the amount of carbonation.

Or, keg to mini kegs and add a system for topping off with CO2. A friend of mine did that and it worked well for keeping the air out. Uses small CO2 cartridges and an adapter fitting.

 

I don't think he's looking for alternatives, he's looking to experiment, so he's looking for suggestions within the experiment...It seems like everytime someone has an idea it gets shot down on theory alone. I sometimes think it's better NOT to do a "What do you guy's think..." thread and just go ahead an post the results, (like with Biermuncher's aswesome junk, or Yuri's or Flyguy's inventions) AFTER the fact...Then we all do what we do with Yuri, Bm's or Flyguy's ideas, bow down to the greatness and creativity of them....Then we make our own.

If the OP had just gone and made it, then put up a thread called, "look at my CPVC Pin," many of us would be clamoring for more info and a parts list...I know I would, hence my support of it IF it works.

Yeah, I know that a Corny may be cheaper and will definitely work...but what if this does as well? We don't KNOW that it WON'T work...Many THINK it might not, but until it is made and either fails or actually works, then that is just conjecture.

Think of all the "Breakthroughs" in this hobby over the last few years. Think of all the awesome ideas we've gotten from posts on here as well...Or think of the things "repurposed" from other places but which we can't live without.

Cooler for a MLT
Aquarium Pump
O2 Welding Bottle
Aquarium Airstone
Beer engine from RV water pump
Turkey Fryer
Flyguy's Ballvalve on the mlt
Stainless Steel Braid from a plumbing part.
Dogfish Head's 120 minute IPA hop adder made from an electric football game
The kegorator made from a dorm fridge, or freezer
The Ranco Controller
March Pump
The immersion Chiller made from copper tubing

And the list goes on....I'm sure, knowing human nature that when/if anyone mentioned ANY of those things (things that we can't live without now, btw) it was probably met with the same kind of rancor that ideas like this meet with here.

"You want to do WHAT??? You want to stick 50 feet of copper tubing in your brew kettle? Copper's toxic, you'll probably kill everyone who drinks your beer, you idiot!!!"

But guess what...it works, doesn't it? Despite what "old timers" must have said.

I try to encourage anyone who wants to try something new to try it...If it means there's another alternative gizmo that works, then I'm all for it.

Yes there may be a "better" way, yes the OP can go by a corny.

But this might serve a purpose too...

And whether or not it ultimately works, some people, myself included, have a heck of a lot of fun experimenting and trying to make new things.

I like to make halloween decorations, the last few years I've been trying my hand at animatronics. Now I know I could go to Halloween USA and buy all the nifty, sleek animated geegaws with micro electric motors...sometimes even cheaper than what it ultimately costs me to make it. BUT there is something infinitely more satisyfing to take a wiper motor and laptop powersupply, or a rotesserie motor, some pvc pipe and some second hand clothes and make something that works, because I made it happen, not some low wage worker in China.




(This has an wooden offset cam attached to a power drill under the seat, the body is PVC, springs, padding and yards of duct tape. The shocking headpiece is a collander, a lamp gooseneck, and a DJ strobelight. The chair was an old stuffed chair discarded on the side of the road, with the stuffing torn off. The whole shebang runs off an old sewing machine foot pedal operated by the person giving candy, it controls the strobe, the rapid up and down of the body and a tape recorder looping the sound of a guy screaming as he's getting tazered.)

It took over a month for my buddy and myself to make it, usually on saturdays, taking a break to watch UofM football and drinking beer.

Kinda reminds me of telling some people I make my own beer...they usually comment that it's probably easier, cheaper and takes much less time to just go buy some...

But I tell them, that it's not as much fun...

 

I just said it would not be cost effective and that existing equipment is available.
We've seen other posts where people have based businesses on building equipment that offers no advantages to inexpensive alternatives.
Keg Pastys.

The GERD issue is eminently solvable too without this PVC pin.

I approach this with the same attitude as reviewing a recipe that calls for using bottled Fiji mash water.

Perhaps I should post my failed gold leafed corny experiment.

 

Sorry Revvy, I'm not buying. The OP apparently has a goal of creating an inexpensive 5 gallon keg (without the constraint of holding high levels of carbonation). When the proposed solution to a problem is based on horribly inaccurate supposition, it's our duty to expose them.

He says: "The cost to build several for five gallon batches would be VERY low" which tells me he wants it to be cheap. You could further conclude that he's under the impression that it would be cheaper than a corny keg if he is even aware of them and their price.

So, even aside from the theory of whether or not it WOULD work, it already falls outside the design criteria of being cheap. Since I like a good debate:

Mcmaster:
48925K25 Std-Wall (Schedule 40) White PVC Unthrd Pipe 6" Pipe Size X 5' Length
In stock at $42.68 Each (you'll need 41" of pipe for 5 gallon capacity).

Sealed end: 4880K141
Std-Wall (Schedule 40) White PVC Pipe Fitting 6" Pipe Size, Cap In stock at $14.14 Each

Open end fixed piece: 4880K151
Std-Wall (Schedule 40) White PVC Pipe Fitting 6" Pipe, Fem Adapter, NPT Female X Socket Female
In stock at $19.73 Each

Open end threaded plug: 9102K335
Sewer &Drain Thin-Wall White PVC Pipe Fitting 6" Pipe, PVC Square-Head Plug, NPT Male
In stock at $10.56 Each


Oh wait, you're right, $85 for a PVC keg with no QD fittings is a good place to start and it's innovative.

 

Given the above, if the criteria were, "I want to build a 20g keg that has the same footprint as a corny" then we're talking.

That'd have to reside in a kick-ass walk-in.

15g cornies are in the 4-500 dollar range.

 

Let's remember if someone was able to get scraps from a construction site this would be way cheaper, I agree that if you where to buy all of this stuff it would be way more expensive than buying a cornie, but believe me as a construction inspector I know you could at least get the pipe free, contractors throw end pieces away all of the time. I don't think I would go with the threaded end pieces either as they are expensive. I like Revvy's idea of a pin where you would have a bung hole this could eliminate the need for a 6" threaded end piece thus decreasing your cost. Also I think as a larger keg project this could be a very cost effective project, hell maybe even smaller kegs as we all know how much 2.5 gal kegs cost. I bet you could make a 2.5 gal keg out of 4" for fairly cheap. I think one of us is just going to have to make one to prove how cool it is . I just had a good idea how about an insulated keg for parties? You could fit a 4" in a 6" pipe and fill between with expandable foam, that could be cool!!

 

So is this who you ended up hanging out with on your birthday?