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Pitching Onto a Lager Yeast After Using It at Ale Temps

Discussion in 'Recipes/Ingredients' started by theDeutscher, Jan 12, 2012.

 

  1. #1
    theDeutscher

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Jan 12, 2012
    I've got a couple recipes formulated here and I'm in need of some much appreciated help. The first one is an Americanized play off of New Belgium's 1554, Jamil's Schwarzbier and Sam Adams' Black Lager. I'm using WLP830 German Lager yeast at ale temperatures as suggested from the 1554. The second recipe is a "bigger" Vienna Lager inspired by Great Lakes Eliot Ness and Jamil's Vienna Lager. What I'll be doing is brewing the Schwarzbier first, letting it ferment out as an ale, decanting it for bottling, and then pitching the newly brewed Vienna lager onto the yeast cake. I will then ferment that as a lager. My questions are: 1. Will fermenting a lager yeast at ale temps and the fermenting the same yeast at lager temps cause any wanted esters in my lager? 2. Is pitching onto this amount of yeast still too much, even for a lager?

    My recipes are:

    DEUTSCHER'S BLACK SWAMP LAGERALE
    Beer Style: Schwarzbier (Black Beer)
    Recipe Type: All-Grain
    Batch Size: 5 gallons
    Boil Size: 6.125 gallons
    Boil Time: 90 minutes
    Original Gravity: 1.058
    Final Gravity: 1.013
    Color: 36 SRM (Black)
    Mash Efficiency: 75%
    Bitterness: 23.3 IBU
    Alcohol: 6.0 ABV
    Calories: 190

    48% (5 lb. 4 oz.) Briess Organic Munich 10
    37% (4 lb. 0 oz.) Briess Pilsen Malt
    6% (0 lb. 10 oz.) Weyermann Dehusked Carafa III Special
    5% (0 lb. 8 oz.) Weyermann Chocolate Rye
    5% (0 lb. 8 oz.) Briess Carapils
    (2.0 oz.) Liberty hops (3.0 AA) @ 60 mins
    Yeast: White Labs WLP830 German Lager

    Mash @ 154 for 60 mins
    Ferment at 65 F


    DEUTSCHER'S JAEGER VIENNA LAGER
    Beer Style: Vienna Lager
    Recipe Type: All-Grain
    Batch Size: 5 gallons
    Boil Size: 6.125 gallons
    Boil Time: 90 minutes
    Original Gravity: 1.061
    Final Gravity: 1.014
    Color: 12 SRM (Copper to Red/Lt. Brown)
    Mash Efficiency: 75%
    Bitterness: 27.7 IBU
    Alcohol: 6.3 ABV
    Calories: 200

    43% (4 lb. 12 oz.) Weyermann Vienna Malt
    29% (3 lb. 4 oz.) Weyermann Pilsner Malt
    27% (3 lb. 0 oz.) Weyermann Munich Type II
    1% (0 lb. 2 oz.) Weyermann Dehusked Carafa II Special
    (1.5 oz.) Hallertau hops (4.3 AA) @ 60 mins
    (0.5 oz.) Hallertau hops (4.3 AA) @ 10 mins
    Yeast: White Labs WLP830 German Lager

    Mash @ 154 for 60 mins
    Ferment at 50 F
     
  2. #2
    rockfish42

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Feb 27, 2012
    Any feedback on the warmer ferment? I'm using 34/70 which is purportedly the same strain in a california commons.
     
  3. #3
    elproducto

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Feb 27, 2012
    Not sure, I just did the same thing so time will tell.

    I brewed a Bo-Pils with 2 packs of w34/70, and then racked a Schwarzbier onto the cake, it took off like lightening!
     
  4. #4
    theDeutscher

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Feb 29, 2012
    Sorry for losing this thread. I'm done fermenting the first beer, the Schwarzbier at ale temps. I pitched a slurry from a gallon starter of the WLP830 at 60°F. I had airlock activity within 6 hours. I slowly let the temperature rise up to 65°F in the first 36 hours and held it there. By that time, fermentation was almost done, seriously. It went from 1.058 to 1.015 in less than 2 days. I let it clean up for a few more days and had no change in final gravity. Fermentation was done and the gravity sample tastes awesome. There's a little more roastiness than I wanted recipe-wise, but the ferment was surprisingly clean, even more than I thought it would be. Right now I have it cold-crashing in my fermentation fridge. I'm going to brew the Vienna lager this week and let it sit in my garage fridge overnight. The next day, I'm going to rack the Schwarzbier for bottling, let the yeast and Vienna warm up to 45°F and combine them. I'm not going to lager the Schwarzbier since I want it to be ale-ish but it's pretty clean already. I will lager the Vienna, though. So far, it's seems as though there isn't any ill affects I can tell of.
     
  5. #5
    rockfish42

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Feb 29, 2012
    Sounds good, hopefully the dry version of the strain behaves similarly. Brewing TV on Northern Brewer did a pseudo-lager episode a while back that had good results with the Wyeast version of the strain at ale temps.
     
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