Noob: confused rehydrating dry yeast

hi all,

just getting my feet wet on the forum. Totally excited by all the informative and supportive contributors!


Well, I've brewed 5 time now, including today. I've used smack packs twice, and I've rehydrated three times...

Im following the guidance of "How to Brew" regarding rehydration. Each time I do it i get really bad clumping and generally it doesnt seem like I'm getting the pictured results in the book.

Im using a pyrex one-cup measuring cup. Each time add Safael yeast to ~100 sterilized water, leaving it on top, and then trying to mix it in after 15 mins of standing time.

When I plunge a spoon into it clumps really hard and I have a really hard time getting a good mix. Then when I get back to it a 15 later, its alittle better but I'm still really struggling to get a decent mix.

So the question is, am i using the wrong container? IE use something with a larger diameter, or could I use a larger vessle with more then 1 cup of water?

dohickey:

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I've used the dry yeast packets several times with Brewers Best and Coopers kits and never bothered with rehydrating. Just pitched them dry. I've never had any problems with fermentation. Unless you have a beer with a relatively high OG, I don't know that it's necessary.

 

I rehydrate my yeast in 1 cup of water in a 2 cup pyrex measuring cup. I generally boil the water as I'm getting all my other brew stuff out and ready to go. Then pitch the yeast as soon in it as it's cooled. Then I loosely cover it with some plastic wrap and brew. So it sits for up to 2-3 hours in the water. I then give it a quick swirl before I pitch it in the carboy. I've never had an issue.

I think you need to give it a little more time.

 

I use fairly 115ml warm water (for US05) in a cereal bowl which gives a fair amount of surface area. I sprinkle the yeast across the surface as evenly as I can - no stirring. I cover with something (plastic wrap, aluminum, a small plate, etc). I come back 15 minutes later and stir it up until it looks not clumpy - sometimes smashing the clumps with the back of the spoon against the cereal bowl. Then I give it 5 more minutes of covered time. Then I give a quick swirl and pitch.

Edit: I recently used two different packets of dry yeast - US05 and Mangrove Jack Newcastle Dark. I noticed that the US05 needed a lot of clump smashing after 15 minutes; the MJ yeast was almost completely dissolved and only required a few seconds of stirring. I think next time I'll let my US05 sit 20-25 minutes before trying to stir it up.

 

I do all my stirring with my thermometer probe. Less yeast sticks to the probe than to a spoon, plus I can monitor the slurry temp at the same time. I don't get the amount of agitation I'd get with a spoon, but in just 115 ml, you don't need much.

 

Ive been rehydrating dry yeast for eons in baking. It is generally regarded best practice in both brewing and baking.

Here is my strategy for your exact problem, which is pretty much unavoidable. pitch your dry yeast into sanitized warm water and stir with a sanitized spoon. There will be clumps. Leave the spoon in the container with the end sticking out and cover.

wait 5-10 mins, stir again.

wait 5-10 mins stir again if necessary. Your clumps will be gone.

The clumps are not a big deal and they dissipate on their own in time as the yeast become saturated. No doubt dry yeast pitched right into the fermentor forms a pretty good clump.

 

The best instructions for rehydrating yeast are on the manufacturers web site. Fermentis recommends rehydrating ale yeasts in water at 77°F to 84°F. Lager yeasts at 69° to 77°F. The temperature range is slightly different from the range given on their spec sheets.
http://www.brewwithfermentis.com/tips-tricks/yeast-rehydration/

Fermentis' Tips and Tricks left out an item which is in their spec sheets. Rehydration time is 30 minutes.

 

Wow lots of geat advice, thanks everyone. I need to check the yeast site because ive been rehydrating in way to warm of water!
How to brew reccomends up to 95°

Also im going to try the cereal bowl next time and ill just leave the spoon or thermometer in the cup.

Thanks for the tips!

 

Yesterday I split a 15 gallon batch three ways with T-58, S-04, and Nottingham. I rehdrated each in a coffee mug 3/4 full of water. I used GoFerm. When the water was 94F I sprinkled the yeast on top.... waited 10 minutes.... then stirred with a sanitized spoon.

Then I waited another 10 minutes stirred and pitched.

They were all fermenting well within 24 hours. OG was 1.060.

 

There's some incorrect info in this thread that needs to be addressed.

trickery - No worries. You haven't been using water that's too warm. 100*F +/-5*F is ideal.

Take a look at this - http://koehlerbeer.wordpress.com/2008/06/07/rehydrating-dry-yeast-with-dr-clayton-cone/, especially where he notes that
"As you drop the initial temperature of the water from 95 to 85 or 75 or 65F
the yeast leached out more and more of its insides damaging the each cell.
The yeast viability also drops proportionally. At 95 – 105 F, there is
100% recovery of the viable dry yeast. At 60F, there can be as much as 60%
dead cells."

The volume of the water used is important. For an 11g packet, I use 1/2 cup of boiled/chilled water in a Pyrex measuring cup. Also, after sprinkling the dry yeast into the water, don't stir it right away. Leave it alone and covered (foil sprayed with StarSan works well) for 15 minutes before stirring and letting it sit for another 5 min.

After that, you'll need to "attemperate" the warm slurry by cooling it to within 15*F of the wort temp (which for most ales ought to be in the low 60's). This is done by adding small amounts of the cooler wort to the slurry and letting it sit a few minutes between each dose. A turkey baster (a very handy brew tool in many ways) that's been sanitized in StarSan works nicely.

Rehydrating dry yeast is worth doing if done right. The few times I've sprinkled dry yeast directly into wort, I've noticed a significantly longer lag time (likely from the yeast culture trying to build its numbers back up to tackle the job of fermentation).

 

I always make a starter whenever I use dry yeast... which is pretty much always. I make up 100 grams DME to 1 litre of water. Boil for 10, cool, add yeast, rock and roll

 

Gravy shakers work great for this. Easy to swish around and pour.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MMO7SC/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

I could go into some detail about why this isn't a good practice, but I haven't yet finished my morning coffee.

Simply put, introducing dry yeast cells into the starter wort kills a certain percentage of them (up to 50%). At that point, the starter then serves to bring the cell count back up to what it originally was. For all the time, effort and cost of DME, you gain.............nada.

 

if you do not rehydrate your dry yeast before you pitch it into your starter wort you might as well pitch it right into your fermenter

I will take a couple of packages of US-05 rehydrate and make a starter

then step it up so I can use those two packs in two 11.5 gallon batches

all the best

S_M

 

Hey Big Floyd! Thanks for the condescending tone in your reply! I could go into great detail about why this method works for me and has always given me better results than pitching straight into my fermenter, but you probably know better anyway. So what's the point...

 

I am glad it works well for you, as with everything it is all about finding what works the best for you in whatever do

all the best

S_M

 

This is not a good idea. Dry yeast is engineered in a way that if you make a starter you first kill off half of the cells, deplete the reserves of the rest, then you MIGHT grow enough new cells to get back to what was in the pack originally.


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The information he provided was accurate, regardless of how it makes you feel. Why kill half the cells making a starter that will then only serve to get the population back to what is would have been if you properly hydrated it to begin with? I'm glad it works for you, and so keep it up if you like the results. It is safe to say that your technique isn't standard operating procedure, though, and perhaps the OP should get their process down using established best practices before branching out and experimenting.

OP, 95 is definitely a safe temp and try using a container that will have the greatest surface area of water. I emailed Fermentis about the temperature before, and they stand by 80° working just fine if that is easier for you in the future, but 95 isn't going to hurt anything.

 

I wasn't trying to be condescending. I really was taking the first sips of coffee and was pretty bleary-eyed when I typed that response on my iPad and didn't have the link to the article that goes into the sort of detail I would like to share when discussing that issue.

Here's a pretty thorough write-up that includes graphs of microscopic cell counts for dry yeast that was either 1) rehydrated in water, 2) sprinkled into starter wort and 3) sprinkled into higher gravity wort. http://bkyeast.wordpress.com/2013/03/13/more-on-yeast-rehydration/

 

Damn this board is great. I'm not sure I've seen a condescending seeming reply apologised for with such tact AND informative quality on other forums.

Seriously, I'm not being sarcastic. This community feckin rocks

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I pitch dry, no issues except that I am lazy...

 

When I do it dry, I get a rash(insert beavis and butthead laugh)

 

With us-05 I usually add water to yeast. Put the yeast in my Pyrex cup then add water slowly and never get any clumping. Any issue with that

 

This is not correct. Rehydrate the dry yeast and proceed with the starter the same as you would with liquid yeast.

 

Isn't it easier to just get two packs of yeast?

 

Yes it would, if it would be possible to get another pack when you needed another pack.

 

The person making the starter said they were hydrating the yeast in starter wort, not water, so while your process will work just fine, they way it was described earlier would be counterproductive.