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No sparge

Discussion in 'General Homebrew Discussion' started by Samaral, Sep 7, 2015.

 

  1. #1
    Samaral

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 7, 2015
    I tried the no sparge method today. I got over 70 percent efficiency. I was very surprised any one else get that kind of results?
     
  2. #2
    bbrim

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 7, 2015
    I hit just below 71% last time I did. Granted, it was a 1.039 OG Mild ale. I like the technique for session beers where I have had issues with over sparging in the past. I think it's a good technique.
     
  3. #3
    domdom

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 7, 2015
    i've heard of 'cold sparging' but haven't heard of this. could you explain? is it just mashing with more water?
     
  4. #4
    1977Brewer

    Free Dan Hess.

    Posted Sep 7, 2015

    Exactly. Mash with your full boil volume plus adjusting for absorption. I ran a session pale this way on my BIAB setup. Easy breezy.

    I also cold sparge every time all the time, with good results.
     
  5. #5
    bbrim

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 7, 2015
    When I do no-sparge I run a thin mash but also add remaining ~1/3 of my water to raise the mash to mash out temp. I stir the crap out of it when I add the water at the end and let it sit for ~10 minutes.
     
  6. #6
    domdom

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 7, 2015
    hmm...might have to try this. any noticeable drop in efficiency compared to other similar grain bills? my efficiency is usually around 63-65% (according to brewtoad at least) and i'd like to keep it from getting much lower.
    any differences with final beer clarity or how much you need to vorlauf?
     
  7. #7
    doug293cz

    BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot Staff Member  

    Posted Sep 7, 2015
    Using all of your water for the initial mash might improve your efficiency. Kai Troester has shown that thinner mashes convert faster than thicker mashes, so can improve efficiency in cases where time alloted for the mash is insufficient for complete saccharification.

    A mashout will only improve your efficiency if your starch to sugar conversion was not complete in the allotted mash time. All the mashout does is extend the mash time, with a temporary boost in conversion rate due to higher temperature. The rate boost goes away quickly as the enzymes denature because of the higher temps.

    Two other ways to get more complete mash conversion are to speed up the process by grinding the malt finer, or to extend the mash time at normal mashing temps.

    Brew on :mug:
     
  8. #8
    doug293cz

    BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot Staff Member  

    Posted Sep 7, 2015
    70%+ efficiency for no sparge mashing is very attainable. Things that limit efficiency are:
    • Percent saccharification (% of starch converted to sugar)
    • Grain absorption
    • Undrainable mash tun volume

    For example, if a 15 lb grain bill achieves 100% conversion, has a grain absorption of 0.12 gal/lb, 0 undrainable MLT volume, and produces 6.8 gal pre-boil volume, then the mash efficiency is 71 - 72%, and has a pre-boil SG of 1.058. If boiled down to 5.5 gal, the OG would be 1.071. Smaller grain bills would have higher efficiency, and larger grain bills would have lower efficiency.

    Brew on :mug:
     
  9. #9
    bbrim

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 7, 2015
    I am intentionally lowering my efficiency when I use the no-sparge technique. I run a RIMS system and easily run low 80s on efficiency but have dialed things back to 78%. Efficiency is not the holy grail. No sparge is great because it helps preserve a rich malt character in small beers.
    No difference in clarity, but I make sure to vorlauf/recirculate. I do take about a 10% efficiency loss when I brew no sparge but like I said, it is excellent for session beers. If you're at 63-65% you may need a tighter crush or attention to water chemistry. That said a lot of guys BIAB and get around 80% with no-sparge.
    Happy brewing!
     
  10. #10
    msa8967

    mickaweapon  

    Posted Sep 8, 2015
    Any danger of extracting tannins when grinding the grain this fine?
     
  11. #11
    domdom

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 8, 2015
    i'd also like to know. i've avoided crushing by grains finer due to this concern.
     
  12. #12
    pricelessbrewing

    Brewer's Friend QA Tester

    Posted Sep 8, 2015
    nope, biabers crush fine all the time. Long as the grain doesn't end up in the boil it's fine.

    As always pay attention to mash ph and don't let Temps exceed 170 and you won't get tannin issues.
     
  13. #13
    douglasbarbin

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 8, 2015
    Shouldn't be a concern if your mash pH is what it should be.
     
  14. #14
    doug293cz

    BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot Staff Member  

    Posted Sep 8, 2015
    Previous answers are correct. To extract tannins, the pH has to be above about 6.0, and the temp has to be above about 170˚F. Keep one (or both) of those below the limit and you will not have tannin extraction.

    Brew on :mug:
     
  15. #15
    Brewenstein

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 8, 2015
    I no sparge from time to time. I will only do it for beers under 1.050 OG - mostly because anything over that and I can't fit the full volume of water in my mash tun (10 gallon cooler). I typically get 70-72% efficiency, so you are right in the ballpark.
     
  16. #16
    domdom

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 9, 2015
    when testing mash ph with a ph strip, do you need to cool the wort before testing? i have some strips and will try this next time i mash to check what it is.
     
  17. #17
    doug293cz

    BIABer, Beer Math Nerd, ePanel Designer, Pilot Staff Member  

    Posted Sep 9, 2015
    Yes, the mash sample should be room temp before using the test strip. However, most experts will tell you that the strips are not accurate enough for testing mash pH.

    Brew on :mug:
     
  18. #18
    domdom

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 9, 2015
    eh. seems pretty hard to do while sparging. what's the best way to test mash PH, preferably on the fly while.
     
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