need experinced brewers input before i start my first brew this week

ok let me ask the pro's here what shoudl i do/add or take out my brew extract kit i got to make it taste as close to a blue moon flavore with the sweetness and orange citrus flavor but with a hell of alot more balls in the manor of a stronger sweetness/ orange citrus flavor...

the beer kit i got includes

it is a Belgian Tripel Extract Kit

KIT INVENTORY:
SPECIALTY GRAIN
-- 0.5 lbs Belgian Caramel Pils
FERMENTABLES
-- 6 lbs Gold malt syrup
-- 3.15 lbs Gold malt syrup
-- 1 lbs Clear Belgian Candi sugar
HOPS & FLAVORINGS
-- 0.5 oz Summit
-- 1 oz Saaz
YEAST
-- WYEAST 3787 TRAPPIST HIGH GRAVITY. Apparent
attenuation: 75-80%. Flocculation: medium. Optimum temp:
64°-78° F.

i also did get one 1 oz of bitter orange peels and 1 oz of Coriander Seed...



heck i dont need to try to make it stronger with alcohol % sense i will have a range of a starting gravity of 1075-1085... but with a starting gravity like that were do u think the beer should be able to get to in % of alcohol wise? im going to do a starter for my liquid yeast for about 2 days to make sure there is deffently enoff yeast cells......

oh and while im thinking of it ... for the starter when i put the yeast in the starte shoudl i put it in the fridge or leave it on the counter?

also what shoudl i put it in ... i was thinking a closed lid Tupperware container ..should that work for the yeast?... (and of course i would make sure the tupperware is sterilized)

im cant freaking wait for my kit to come in on the 8th .. im sooo freaking excited to make my own killer home brew beer.

so any help will be great.. and alway want to say thanks for all the help you guys have given me so far with all the noob qustions i have asked so far!!!

 

Where are you getting your kit from? If its a good kit and has good instructions, i would just follow the recipe. Get your first brew under your belt, and get comfortable with the steps and process. Step 1 sanitation, step 2 sanitation, step 3 sanitation, you get the point. My first couple of brews were sour, i was using a rinse sanitizer, after sanitizing i was rinsing with nasty tap water, once i got some star san, smooth sailin! See how the brew turns out, and if it isnt to your liking, brew again and adjust from there. You need to know how the flavor is to begin with, until you know what you want to change. But, since you have the orange and coriander, if you want, throw it in. You can do whatever you want! As long as your sanitation practices are good, you will almost always end up with good beer.

I'M NO EXPERT! Ive been at this for a little over a year, and have learned a few things along the way. Just trying to help a noob, as there were many that helped me!

GoodLuck Let us know how it turns out.

 

I forgot to answer about the starter. I use a flask and a stir plate, the flask has another name, but i cant spell it!

When i first made starters i would use a growler. Boil water and dme in a sauce pan, pour into a sanitized growler, with sanitized funnel, then set in an ice bath. Once cooled, i would add the yeast, after santizing the yeast packet and scissors. While watching tv that evening, i would keep the starter on my coffee table, and give it a good swirl every 10 min or so. I would get a little obsessive and play with it all night! Before pitching, i hit the rim of the container with a flame or some star san, just to be sure its sanitized.

 

my advice to you is that you write/type all the steps in order that they need to be done. the first batch is a bit hectic if you don't have an experienced brewer helping you. be sure that you include all the sanitizing/cleaning steps. it sucks when you realize that there's only 5 minutes left in your boil, and you haven't sanitized your funnel or carboy/bucket, etc.

 

You've never brewed before, so what makes you think you know more about recipe/kit creation than the folks who put the kit together? So why do you think you need to mess with it if this is your first time? You think kit designers have less experience than you, and despite that risk money, and their reputations on peddling crap?

Kit recipes are designed usually by PROFESSIONAL BREWERS, or at least experienced brewers or are recipes that have won awards, and are put together with the hobbyist in mind. And are usally tested over and over before being commited to a company's repetroir.

I recommend new brewers do for their first couple kits, as is, so you can concentrate on the process of brewing, and not recipe creation..

Also kits are 'fool proof' meaning they have been vetted in terms of being good recipes (afterall a company's reputation is at stake) and therefore as long as you follow directions then your beer will turn out and so you can relax and concentrate on learning the process of brewing, AND if you make a mistake, and have a set kit, then it is easier to troubleshoot, because again you know then kit was already "perfect" to begin with.

If you want a strong beer, don't choose a normal gravity beer and decide that since you read about boosting gravity by adding more sugars to just add more sugar, choose a beet of the grav you want, just like if you wand a peach beer, don't choose a non fruit beer recipe and try to "figure out" how to add the fruit...get a kit or recipe that has everything you need in the right quantities you need. Recipes are about a BALANCE between flavors, bitterness, aromas, what have you, and until you get a few batches under your belt, and learn the fundamentals, stick with the already proven and balanced recipes. That way you don't have the extra step of trying to figure out what went wrong if the beer doesn't taste good.....if the recipe or kit already tastes good (and they would have gone through tastes tests and ALREADY before you got to them- you know they are already good, if not award winning beers, if you went with a kit or book recipe, they have been vetted) if there is something not right, you will have an easier time trying to figure out what went wrong in terms of your brewing PROCESS, not because you went off the ranch and on top of trying to actually learn to brew, you also through a bunch of crap into the equation.

Beer recipes are a balance...and if you add to one variable, that will affect other parts of it...For example if you decide to raise the gravity of a balanced beer...a beer where the hops balance out the sweetness...and you raise the maltniness of it without alaso balancing the hops, then your beer may end up being way too cloyingly sweet. Or if you just add sugar willy nilly it could become overly dry, or cidery.

At this stage you don't know enough yet, and you won't learn just by jacking a recipe o your first time out of the box.

This won't be your first beer, hopefully (that is if you don't f-with the recipe and make crap and end up hating the hobby) so you don't have to put the kitchen sink into it. Just concentrate on the fundamentals first.

Listen to the advice on here about PROCESS, like making starters and such, but leave the recipe alone.

 

Follow the Rev's advice.

 

Revvy's entire comment x 1000.

One of the biggest challenges when getting into this is patience. We are used to buying beer and drinking it right away. Making it is a whole other process. You have to be patient in letting it ferment and age, but you also need to be patient in your abilities. Follow the recipe and hone the process that works for you. After you get a few batches under your belt, then worry about changing things up.

Its very much like learning to cook. Start with 'hamburger helper' and work your way up to 'braised duck with chutney blah blah blah'.][


[edit] DO NOT do a starter in a CLOSED LID container unless you like cleaning and not having yeast. Put a piece of foil over the top of the container and let it sit in a dark location. All you are doing is making a tiny batch of unflavored, bland beer to get the yeast started up, so treat it the same as you would a full batch.

 

revvy is correct............ It seems like every time a new brewer comes on here they are concerned with boosting the alcohol level in the beer they are attempting to make. I figure I want to make GOOD beer then worry about the other stuff. As for the orange peel and coriander, look up blue moon clone ecipes on here. That will give you an idea of how much to add and when, BUT your kit is much higher alcohol content than the recipes so it will not taste the same.

 

dude i make a ****ing mistake when i ordered it i though it woudl be liek a blue moon but heavyier but i was told it would not be... so that is why im asking for help on if i could change anything to make sure it has a blue moon flaover.. so i will have a beer i like.. cause i like fruity beers...and not have wasted $40 for this kit...gezzz

and 2nd off i never said i thought i new more then the people who made the kit.. so i dont know were you came up with that b.s gezz all i was asking for was help and i get damn flamed for stuff i never even said ...
and ontop of that if i thought i new better then the people who made the kit.. why would i be asking the experienced brews here on this form for help....

 

this is the link to the kit im getting
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewi...ract-ale-kits/belgian-tripel-extract-kit.html

and here is the link of the directions for that kit
http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/beerkits/BelgianTripel.pdf

 

You're not getting flamed, you're getting advice from a brewer who has probably pi$$ed away more beer that he's made than you probably ever will. It's the same answer I've given to others many times before, and their skin is obviously not as thin as yours, and see it purely as advice and not something to get so worked up about.

And as you can see, others agree with me, about not messing with your first couple recipes....So maybe we know something about this that you don't.

I'm trying to help, not bust your chops. You asked advice from experienced brewers, and you got it.

Just because you don't like the answer, don't mean it's not the right one.


You want a blue moon clone, order one the internet's a wonderful place for that and brew that one, or brew this one, as it is. And then brew your dream uber blue moon clone. (Who says there's anything wrong with having 2 batches of beer in the pipeline?)

But, like other folks have agreed, don't start altering recipes on your first batch, or else you're gonna be posting a thread titled, "Why does my beer taste like I licked Satan's Anus after he ate a dozen coneys?" And we're not going to be able to answer you, because you've screwed with the recipe as well as maybe made a few noob brewer mistakes that typically get made, and neither you, nor us, are going to be able to figure out what went wrong. Because there's too many variables.

But hey, it's your beer, and clearly you know more about it than the folks who designed the recipe or any of us onb here giving you advice based on gallons and gallons and years and years of brewing experience, you clearly don't really need advice from any of us anyway. You know it all, and we've never gazed upon a brewer god as magnificient as you before.

*shrug*

 

I make a blue moon clone quite often......If you want to use the stuff you have ( coriander and orange peel) The way I do it is to put .17 oz of ground coriander in the boil with 15 minutes left. And I put .5 oz ground sweet valencia orange peel in with 5 minutes left in the boil. I use Mc Cormicks orange peel. Anyway with a higher ABV beer you might want to up the orange a bit. I will say though that I would probably stick to those amounts or close, and then add an orange slice to the glass when pouring the beer. Easier to skip the slice than to take out too much added to the boil. I do believe however that I would brew this kit as is. Then add my orange in the glass. A tripel is a far cry from a blue moon and trying to turn it into one will probably not be what you are after. different yeasts and everything.

 

There was another guy on here that ordered that same Belgian Trippel as their first brew, and I'll tell you the same thing I told him, that was probably NOT the best decision on a first beer. Simply, that one takes 3+ months to produce a good beer.

I remember my first batch, and I was cracking bottles less than 3 weeks after my boil (Nut Brown Ale). I was sooooo impatient. I can't imagine waiting 3 months on my first batch! You should have done a little more research and asked a few more questions before you ordered your first batch.

A Trippel is called a Trippel because it is 3X the alcohol amount of a normal Begian, like your Blue Moon.

So, my advise to you at this point would be to brew this brew per the instructions and just let it sit and ferment like it's supposed to.

In the meantime, go ahead and order a blue moon clone kit, and brew that one next weekend. It will be fully conditioned and ready to drink months before the Trippel is.

Here's a good blue moon clone:
http://www.austinhomebrew.com/product_info.php?cPath=178_452_43_210&products_id=10902

Good luck!

 

one more thing. I misread your first post. I thought you were trying to figure out how to make the BEER stronger not the orange flavor.

 

Three Months? I don't even look at my Tripels for 8 months to a year....

 

I don't think the Rev was flaming you. Just giving you advice in a blue collar way.

 

nope well i went with the triple because it would be stronger in alcohol %..and thought it would be a blue moon liek beer.. but figured out after it was not...so that is what im trying to do is give it that orange flavor i like

 

Now that's a bit of a flame.

 

frist off you got a really sh**ty attitude man...how about u pull that damn stick out of your a$$..... and again i never said i new more, that was why i was asking for help ..and then you talk down to me like im a piece of sh**... so how about you just go fu*k your self

well the way he talks down to people when they are asking for help is kinda b.s

 

I guess you won't get his help anymore.

 

Listen to Revvy ... he knows for sure! I am glad I have!

Only been brewing 6 months and have 26 gallons completed. The experienced brewers here have help me make some great beer and advice. Even pointed out mistakes when I did not known I was making, and have helped improve my skills and knowledge.

 

So here's the thing... he ordered a triple kit thinking it was going to taste like Blue Moon. Yes, its his first beer and maybe he's need to chill a bit, but adding some orange and coriander to this kit isn't going to screw it up. The biggest challenge is going to be yeast health, sanitation, etc. especially with his first brew being high gravity. If this beer ends up getting screwed, this will be the reason, not a small addition of spice.

Personally, I say give it a go. And add 3-4 oz. of fresh orange peel at flame out (orange skin only, non of the white pith) and about 0.5 - 0.75 oz. of cracked coriander seed. This amount of seed and orange won't punch you in the face, but it'll give some nice additional flavors.

Cheers.

 

Although I am a very, very inexperienced brewer, Revvy seems to be right about most things judging by the fact that (a) it usally makes total sense and (b) most of the other experienced brewers on here tend to agree with him.

However, in my VERY humble opinion, he does enjoy letting you know that he's right and he could be a little more tactful (see, for example, Yooper's posts which are also very informative but presented in a... friendly way). But hey, it's entertaining and also if everyone was the same, the world would be a boring place.

Just try to focus on the facts of what he is telling you:

1. brew the beer as the recipe states - don't eff with it on your first try
2. actually that was about it

But, yeah, what Revvy said, he's right

 

Yes, he was more harsh than he needed to be and could use a little bit of "bedside manner" to soften his tone and delivery.

However, he was only addressing you as a man. He wasn't trying to insult you or disrespect you, he was only giving it to you straight. While some of us would have said it differently, there's not need to get all immature on him and basically validate the tone he began with from the very beginning. The cursing and general attitude of your post is far more arrogant than he came across as.

If you want to be babied and REALLY talked down to, then he could edit his post and patronize you with wishy washy kidspeak. But we're all adults here, and just because he pulled out the red ink on you doesn't mean you have to throw a fit. The "we're all adults here" is what you really need to take out of this whole post.

It's important to keep a few things in mind here. Firstly on the internet we have no tone, body language, etc. to trully flesh out the communication. It is just text...Secondly, Rev was only trying to offer you advice. Third, it was great advice. And finally, just relax man.

Hope that first batch comes out great, good luck man :rockin:

 

Ah....another one of these threads.

 

i understand that he has experience but when someone talks to down to someone liek he did it piss's me off... he coudl have just left it and said" hey just leave it alone and go by the dirrections cause it put together a certin way that if u change some things around could mess up the beer" and left it as that then i would be fine ok..

but he had to go and say

"You've never brewed before, so what makes you think you know more about recipe/kit creation than the folks who put the kit together? So why do you think you need to mess with it if this is your first time? You think kit designers have less experience than you, and despite that risk money, and their reputations on peddling crap?"

and

"But hey, it's your beer, and clearly you know more about it than the folks who designed the recipe or any of us onb here giving you advice based on gallons and gallons and years and years of brewing experience, you clearly don't really need advice from any of us anyway. You know it all, and we've never gazed upon a brewer god as magnificient as you before. "

there was no need for that at all.. and i never said anything along the lines that i knew better then the people made this kit or anybody on this forum... that was why i was askign for help cause i dont know more

i just made a mistake and ordered the wrong kit and was hopeing there was a way to give it a blue moon is flavor ..even it if did not come out 100% liek it .. i just wanted to do what i could to make sure the flavor of my frist brew would come out for what i was lookign for and what i like cause i like the more citrus fruit liek beers.. and not wast $40.... heck i know im a noob and that was why i was asking for help. and then u get some guy saying what i he did to me .. im sorry but he just pissed me off there was no need for that all and what he said was disrespectful

 

Maybe your tone needs to change a bit too. You have now blown this way out of proportion.

Oh and spell check

Cheers!

 

I concur. Baddager - You are lucky Revvy (one of the most experienced brewers here if not the most experienced) was nice enough to give you some advice. Try reading through some of his 29,000 posts - very good info

 

I'll help you because I'm a nice guy

What you want to do is make an extract batch that is your first and that you can drink ASAP since you are going to be impatient. Also you want to make something similar to Blue Moon because you like Blue Moon. Unfortunately you ordered a kit that is nothing like blue moon and takes months to finish so here is what you can do.

1. Order another kit that is a blue moon clone like the one linked from Austin.


2. (This is what I would do) Place another Order for some extra stuff to add to what you have to make a Blue Moon Clone, and you will still have left overs to make the Belgian Ale as well (but dont go triple unless you like triples, here's a clue, if you don't like a strong alcohol tasting beer you probably don't like triples.)

What you should order:

6lbs wheat extract:
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/northern-brewer-what-malt-syrup.html

Dry Ale Yeast, almost any will do. I'd go with Nottingham, it's cheap and makes a great Blue Moon Clone.
http://www.northernbrewer.com/brewing/nottingham-ale-yeast.html

Since you are going to have to pay the 7.99 shipping you might want to pick up some extra stuff as well. Maybe some extra packs of yeast, some crystal malt, some extra hops and malt extract, etc but thats up to you.

Also buy a box of quick oats from the grocer.

From your triple kit save the candy sugar, the 6 lb pack of gold malt syrup, the liquid yeast, the summit hops, and half the caramal malt. You wnt be using any of that in the Blue Moon clone.

For your blue moon clone you are going to basically follow the instructions that came with the triple with a few significant changes.

On step number 4 where you steep your grains, instead of steeping 1/2 lb Caramel Malt, steep 1/4 lb Caramel malt and 1/2 lb quick oats. Put the bag in your water when you turn the heat on and remove it when your water reaches 170-175 degrees. When you tie the grain bag make sure to leave room for the malt and especially the oatmeal to expand. And before you remove the bag dunk and shake it for a couple of minutes to extact the starch and color form the grains. You wont get much fermentables from them but you will get some color and flavor from the malt and some flavor, cloudiness and body from the oats.

Step 5: bring the 2.5 gallons of water (with your steeped grain extract now in it) to a boil then turn off the flame and stir in the the 3.15 lb pack of gold malt syrup and 4 lbs of the wheat syrup (save 2 lbs of the bottle of wheat syrup in fridge for your belgian ale).

Step 6: Bring back to a boil then add the 1 oz of saaz hops (remember save the summit hops for your modified belgian ale you are goin to brew next). You want a single hop addition and at least 60 minute boil for the Blue Moon Clone. When there is 10 minutes left in the boil (after 50 minutes of boiling) add ground corriander, around 1.5-2 tsp. When there is 5 minutes left add sweet (not bitter) orange peel. Go buy McCorrmick ground sweet valencia orange peel. I'd add about 1 tsp but if you want it more orangy add 2 tsp.

Step 10: bring volume in your fermenter up to 5.5 gallons (not 5 gallons) so you will have 5 gallons of beer when its done fermenting.

Step 11. Skip. You dont need to aerate the wort if you use the dry yeast.

Step 13: Rehydrate the yeast as per the instructions on the packet before pitching into wort.

Step 18: Skip this step. You dont need or want a secondary fermentation for the Blue Moon clone. After 2-3 weeks bottle the beer.

After 2 more weeks with the bottles stored at room temp of at least 70 degrees chill and enjoy

Thats what I would do if I were you. If you are going to do this and want to know what I would do for the second batch, the belgian ale just ask

 

Forgot to mention about the foil and foam stopper for the starter.oops. sorry

 

Glad I read this entertaining thread. I am about to brew my first batch, an American Pale Ale, and was flirting with the idea of adding a pound or so of sugar. Think I'll just follow my brew master's instructions. Cheers.

 

I was thinking of printing this thread, wadding it up, put it in my hops bag and add at flameout, to spice up my next batch. Good idea?

 

The northernbrewer instructions say 3 months for this kit, remember, these kits are designed by pros couldnt help myself:fro:

 

That was very nice. :rockin:

 

Say what?

If I were you baddagger I would not skip aeration if using dry yeast.
(but that's only because I think I know more than those jacklegs at Danstar)

 

listen to Rev's advice.

 

Tell you the truth I always shake it around a bit too, but I don't think it adds anything since the yeast already have everything they need, sterols and whatnot, so they don't need the aerobic grow phase.

 

lol

 

hey thanks alot for the help.. im defently going to give this a try

 

<<< Shakes head



Asks advice then gets gets upset??? Seriusly, when people ask me about Blue Moon I tell them its for people who don't actually like beer.

Probably gonna get modded for that one...