My beer tastes horrible!

My first batch of beer, an amber bock extract kit from Midwest, is absolutely terrible... Borderline undrinkable.

I left it in the primary fermenter for one week, then in the secondary fermenter for two weeks. It has been in bottles for 5 weeks now. I don't have an accurate original or final gravity because my hydrometer had a leak in it (couldn't figure out why my readings were so ****ty at first) that I had not noticed until after bottling.

I was very meticulous about my sanitizing procedure and did not see any signs of infection. I did put them in my dish washer on the rinse cycle with heat after sanitizing. I had a drying agent in the diswasher (the blue liquid kind that you add to to the washer once a month or so). I never thought about it until reading somewhere that bottles shouldn't be rinsed if a drying agent is used.

Besides being flat and warm, the beer tasted pretty good prior to bottling. I then tried one beer each Friday after bottling. Each subsequent week produces a worse tasting beer than the last. I can only describe it as yeasty (I think). It has a slight fungal smell (I think, I'm not so good at pointing out tastes and smells) over top of a good, normal beer smell. I've had a couple of friends try it also without mentioning how bad it tastes beforehand, and they all had the same opinion of it.

It is well carbonated and does not gush out when opened. It has a foamy head when poured and looks like a 'normal' beer.

I don't feel as though it is the drying agent because otherwise I would assume I would taste that in my drinks poured into glasses from the dishwasher... However, I know that is one part of my process that I made a mistake in.

Any ideas? Thanks.

 

how long to you cold condition the bottles before drinking

 

the thing that stands out to me is you put your bottles in the dishwasher to rinse them AFTER sanitizing? only thing to go in bottles after sanitizing is beer..

 

"I was very meticulous about my sanitizing procedure and did not see any signs of infection. I did put them in my dish washer on the rinse cycle with heat after sanitizing. I had a drying agent in the diswasher (the blue liquid kind that you add to to the washer once a month or so). I never thought about it until reading somewhere that bottles shouldn't be rinsed if a drying agent is used."

This might be your problem.

 

I agree with these guys that could be the problem but if you haven't let them cold crash in your fridge for a week that could be the problem. My beer after a week in the fridge is very clear and the yeast have fallen to the bottom in a nice tight cake so I don't get them in the glass when I pour

 

Thanks for the quick replies.

The first few beers I only left in the fridge for a couple of hours to get cold. They were still clear when poured into a glass. Others have been in the fridge for over a week with absolutely no improvement in taste... or clarity really.

I certainly won't be putting my bottles in the dishwasher anymore... However, do you guys really think that is the cause of the foul taste? If so, wouldn't my drinks poured into glasses cleaned in the dishwasher have a similar taste? Also, the drying agent does not smell at all like the off taste and smell of the beer smells.

 

I would take a bottle down to your local home brew supply place and let them taste it. They will probably be able to tell you what the problem is. Short of that, I would say it got some contamination when you rinsed them after sanitizing. When I was bottling I used iodophor to sanitize and then, drained them and let them dry up side down in six pack cartons. I put paper towels in the bottom of the cartons to absorb what little liquid would come out.

 

What temperature did you ferment and bottle condition at?

 

I don't think the problem isn't the smell from the glass you pour them in the issue is if they are washed after sanitized they aren't sanitized anymore so you may have gotten an infection in the so its not directly related to the taste of the jet dry

 

+1

This has nothing to do with the jet dry.

If anything, it's just the fact that you sprayed (bacteria laden) water into the bottles after you sanitized them by putting them in the dishwasher. You de-sanitized your sanitized bottles. Maybe. That's one possibility.

I haven't seen it asked yet, but what kind of sanitizer do you use anyway?

Also, as previously asked, how long did your beers sit at room temp in the bottles before you put them into fridge?

This could be infection.
This could be phenols if a bleach sanitizer was used.
This could just be "green" beer.

 

I have sanitized bottles in the dishwasher many times, but not with Jet Dry. Still, it could be an infection. But as Walker said, more info would be helpful.

 

It doesn't sound like he used the dishwasher to sanitize his bottles. Rather, he rinsed them in the dishwasher after sanitizing them by other means.

 

This is a great idea... I don't know why I didn't think of this myself. I'll report back when I do this.

I fermented at 70 degree room temp (though during the active fermentation, the temperature of the beer rose to about 73 degrees).

I read (on this forum actually ) that using the dishwasher on the high heat cycle is just as effective as using a sanitizer... I figured I'd be able to rinse out all the sanitizer I used and do an 'extra sanitizing step' by using the dishwasher on the high heat setting (which incidentally is called 'sanitize' on my dishwasher). I also wanted to rinse off the sanitizer to avoid any off tastes, even though it says it is not necessary to rinse.

I used one step sanitizer.

The beer was in the primary for one week, the secondary for two weeks, and in the bottles at room temp for five weeks now (plus a little over a week in the fridge now).

I had thought this may just be green beer... the problem is that I do not know what 'green' beer tastes like!

 

Suppose this could be a problem with oxidation? That tends to build up after bottling, and leaves an unpleasant flat flavor in the beer. If so, it has nothing to do with the dishwasher.

 

If it's 8 weeks old, then this isn't "green beer".

As for the dishwasher, yes I've seen it discussed... and debated.... on here way too many times. Some people say it works great, some people say it doesn't work at all.

If you have a no-rinse sanitizer, you might as well trust it, right?

 

I've used a dish washer to sanitize but you dont wantto put anything else in just let the hot water do the work. Adding soap or jet dry can cause the infection. But if you have no rinse that would be better anyway.

 

Unless you know the precise temperature and amount of time the dishwasher spends at the "sanitizer" setting, I wouldn't use the dishwasher to sanitize. Either use a proven no rinse sanitizer at correct concentration along with a bottle tree or another way to keep bacteria from reentering in the bottles or use dry heat (baking the bottles in the oven).

I would then bleach the hell out of anything plastic or soft that touched the beer at bottling or replace them. I also question the cleanliness of whatever room the bottling took place. I wipe everything that might come into contact with the beer with a strong bleach solution (counters, faucet) and put away the dishes/trash/assorted stuff away when I'm bottling, just to reduce as much as possible potential airborne/contact contaminants.

It doesn't take a scientist to realize that decent beer in the bottling bucket that turns into an horrible concoction that reaks of fungus afterwards means something went wrong there and not before. I've tasted oxidized brews before an they really do take a carboard flavour. It's like munching on an old, wet phonebook, not at all like OP is describing.

 

I'm very anal about wiping off all my counters and sinks with a new sponge and bleach before getting started. I then sanitize everything else with the one step. I'm not saying that I couldn't have screwed up something (most likely I did), but from watching many, many youtube videos online, I feel that I am much more 'sterile' than nearly any of their procedures.

This certainly does not taste like old phonebook or cardboard (well, how I would imagine those tasting )

I will trust my sanitizer for my subsequent batches and skip the dishwasher for sure.

It sounds as though I contaminated something from the sounds of the responses. Is there another explanation for my description of the beer? If not, I guess I'll have to assume I contaminated my beer somehow.

 

It does sound like you have an infection, but it won't hurt anything to give the bottles more time to be sure. I would hang on to them for a few more months before dumping them. Meanwhile, get that pipeline filled!

 

I've got my second batch, a light ale, in bottles for a week now and a dunkelweizen in my secondary, also for a week. I tried the ale after a week in bottles. Although still too flat, the flavor was still much, much better than the amber bock.

 

I have no experience with One-Step, but it's not a considered a sanitizer anymore by the FDA. Take that as you will. I use an acidified bleach solution and it works fine (1 T of bleach and vinegar for 5 gallons of water).

Were your bottles extra, squeaky clean when you sanitized ? I've had a few slip by two rounds of careful examination and come out dirty with specks of mold or dirt at the bottom last weekend after a good long oxyclean soak and rinse. It wouldn't explain why ALL of the bottles came out foul though... Also, where do you store your brewing equipment when it's not being in use ? I try to store nothing wet or you can have mildew and assorted spores take home into soft plastic scracthes.

 

Also from what I understand one step isn't classified as a sanitizer anymore
Dang you beat me to it

 

It seemed as if the one step was the most highly recommended. Well, I just bought a five pound bucket of it, so that's what I'm stuck with for the time being.

It's possible that a few bottles got by with specks of gunk in them. I do make an effort to keep them all very clean; I rinse them all right after drinking the beers and then rewash them all with a brush and spray. Also all the bottles of beer are uniformly disgusting to drink.

ETA: I hadn't noticed your last couple of sentences in your post. I dry everything as much as I can. Items such as the tubing and siphon that are not easily dried are laid out to dry in my basement office/fledgling brewery. It is also my gun/reloading room, so the humidity is kept very low in order to keep rust down - so they dry very quickly.

Thanks for all the help so far guys!

 

You mentioned it was an amber bock kit, but I did not see an indication of the yeast you used. As bocks are lagers, the temperature range of your fermentation, 70-73 is way too high if using a lager yeast and would result in off tastes.

The primary by product of the jet dry should be a loss of head or head retention.

 

I couldn't tell you the type of yeast I used. I didn't realize at the time that would be something I should know. But, here's the kit I used, if that will help. The directions said to brew between 65 and 75 degrees.

 

Looked at the kit. It did not say if it was an ale or a lager yeast. Optimum fermentation temperatures (Different from the pitching temperature) can vary from the 40s to about 75 degrees depending on the yeast strain. If you buy a White Labs, Wyeast or Fermentis yeast strain the optimum fermentation temperature is generally on the label. The kit yeasts generally don't tell you anything and leave you to guess.

 

That may be so, but it doesn't mean that it ISN'T a sanitizer. This argument continues ad naseum, but t it IS a sanitizer. The fact that it isn't recognized by the government has to do with politics (and money) and nothing to do with it's effectiveness.

If you followed the directions, your problem is not with One-Step.

 

I'll toss out another possibility other than the dishwasher issue (considering it happened to me!): is there a possibility that the beer oxidized? Wondering since you didn't describe the taste/smell issue if the beer was splashed during transfer or if there were issues with bubbles forming in the bottling wand/line. I had an an entire batch of vanilla stout go down the drain after I somehow oxidized the brew when I transferred to the bottling bucket. Prior to that, it tasted fantastic, but after about 3 weeks in bottle, it was undrinkable (almost like a seriously dry Merlot).

 

Did you read my post all the way ? Where did I argue that it wasn't a sanitizer ?

 

I did... and you did... or at least that's the way I took it. And I was clarifying that because I'm sure I wasn't the only one.

 

My first thoughts as well. What yeast was this?

Nevermind: i see that you don't know what type of yeast. The website has a review of somebody fermenting at 72 so it's probably an ale yeast. Weird.

 

Okay, One-Step is not legally a sanitizer, but a lot of people have used it successfully as such. End of that discussion, hmm-kay? *Mr. Garrison Head Tilt*

(The South Park character of Mr. Garrison was based on a real guidance counselor that Trey Parker knew from Junior High... my older brothers knew him, too, and he really did talk that way.)

Let's Sherlock Holmes this dealie-o.

Prior to bottling: tasted fine
After bottle conditioning: tasted like a fungus' nether orifice
After cold conditioning: still slurping fungi

Unquestioned: pre-bottling steps
Questionable: bottle sanitization (due to dishwasher), possible oxidation, yeast strain, beer gremlin attack?
Fact of Note: *all* bottles have been bad

Since all bottles have been compromised, think of it this way: either the whole batch was contaminated, the yeast are not good brewing yeast, or all the bottles were tainted. If the yeast were not good brewing yeast, then time will fix it. If the beer is truly contaminated, the two things that could have done this are: your bottling bucket/equipment, or something that touched all of your bottles.

If you sanitized your bottling equipment properly, then it likely wasn't "batch contamination".

Since dishwashers use the same water for all the bottles, the same colony of bacteria could have been spread through all the bottles. The repeated use of the dishwasher may have provided a selection event (micro-evolution) for a bacteria either able to withstand the temperatures, or with spores capable of withstanding the temperatures to survive and infect all of your bottles. Although this is unlikely, it is very far from impossible.

Recommendations: don't use your dishwasher to sanitize. If you lack confidence in your liquid sanitizers, use the oven (carefully, now!).

Sadly, unless the yeast are not brewer's yeast, the batch is probably done for. Set it aside and see if it turns into a lambic or something magical -- beer-acles (beer miracles) happen! In six months, who knows? The first time you get a bottle that tastes oxidized (wet phone book, cardboard pacifier, etc) then give up on the whole batch.

That's advice from one noob to another. I'm sorry for your loss.

 

I wouldn't swear off the One Step just yet. Plenty still use, and love it.

 

Get star-san or other wet sanitizer, do not dry the bottles fill when wet.

BTW Your beer will also taste better if you do a longer primary than one week.

 

I think you cracked the case

 

bottling is easy mmm-kay