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Looking to start AG soon and want to go with BIAB single vessel electric brewing

Discussion in 'Electric Brewing' started by Garrett, Apr 24, 2011.

 

  1. #1
    Garrett

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Apr 24, 2011
    Been brewing extract and partial on the stove for about 6 months now and I am now ready to make the move to AG. Been doing lots of research on the forums and it seems like electric brewing is the way to go! I would like to do the BIAB single vessel electric method, seems like it is very effect and really cuts down on time, clean up and equipment cost. My concerns are, I have no electrical/wiring experience, I am on a budget as well and I am starting from scratch with equipment. Are there any simplified methods of doing this for someone so new to it all? What would be the best way to execute all of this properly, safely and cost effectively?

    Thanks for your help in advance!
     
  2. #2
    P-J

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted Apr 24, 2011
  3. #3
    Garrett

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Apr 25, 2011
  4. #4
    P-J

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted Apr 25, 2011
    Does your rental have clothes washer/dryer outlets?
     
  5. #5
    Garrett

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Apr 25, 2011
    This is what I have in the garage, it says 30A-125/250v. We do not use it, we have both washer/dryer plugged into regular wall outlet.

    image-1942839411.jpg
     
  6. #6
    P-J

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted Apr 26, 2011
    Sounds like you have a gas dryer. No problem as it sounds like the outlet that you pictured is available. With that it would be an easy task to setup a BIAB system that is powered by 240V. It would be similar to the diagram I referenced earlier (above) but would be setup for 240V only.

    If you are interested, I can mod the diagram to accomplish that.

    Oh: Another quick question. Is there any chance that the circuit breaker feeding that outlet can be changed to a GFCI outlet? It would be well worth the added safety factor.

    P-J
     
  7. #7
    Garrett

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Apr 26, 2011
    That sounds great! My only concern is if I move out, having an outlet like that available for me in the future. Im not sure if I can get a GFCI outlet, I guess I could hire an electrician and have it installed, not sure how much that would cost. My circuit breaker is divided into two boxes, one main and one that controls the house.

    Heres a picture of the main:
    [​IMG]


    Also since I am so new to this, I notice in the diagram there is nothing about having a temperature probe, isn't that necessary to achieve proper temp?
     
  8. #8
    P-J

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted Apr 26, 2011
    I'm betting it is the top left breaker. Wish we lived closer -it would take all of 5 minutes to swap it out an test it. You might want to go on a research adventure and write down the make/model info on that breaker panel. Then go see if you can get a GFCI replacement reasonably at HD or Lowes (et.al.). If you are game - I can walk you through it on the phone.

    Regarding the temp probe. It is there but is only shown as a RTD probe on the PID layout.

    Suggestion: PM me your phone number and lets talk a bit.

    P-J
     
  9. #9
    Garrett

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Apr 26, 2011
    That makes sense since it says 30 on it, I just took a look at the circuit breaker box and the brand is Crouse Hinds, but the model number is hard to make out. Just sent you a PM.
     
  10. #10
    P-J

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted Apr 26, 2011
    Thanks.! It was great talking with you. My mind is spinning with possibilities for a setup for you that provides the 'safety factor' and an easy implementation.

    A Spa Panel is step one. Then the BIAB setup.
     
  11. #11
    P-J

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted Apr 28, 2011
    Ok, after much pondering over the situation, how about this. It would be expensive to replace the breaker in the mains panel with a GFCI breaker and you would still end up with a 3 wire system. Replacing the wire and the outlet adds a lot more to the build cost. Your place is also a rental so getting it done becomes a huge issue.

    So with that all said, you buy a Spa Panel from homedepot.com - GE 50A Spa Panel - $49.00

    Then wire it using a dryer power cord. You wire it like this:

    [​IMG]

    Or looking at a Spa Panel:

    [​IMG]

    You can mount a 4 wire outlet directly into the panel so that your brewery controller can be plugged into it.

    For a little more that 50 bucks you are ready to go on with your brewery control.
     
  12. #12
    Garrett

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Apr 28, 2011
    Looks great P-J! I can't wait to get this started.
     
  13. #13
    tmbc10784

    Member

    Posted May 3, 2011
    Edit, I think I'm going to try 120v, as I would be limited to my garage with 240v.
     
  14. #14
    mr_tripp

    Well-Known Member

    Posted May 5, 2011
    Can you connect a PID and SSR into the SPA panel?
     
  15. #15
    P-J

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted May 5, 2011
    Yes you can - BUT - I'm not sure what you are asking.

    Please explain. A little idea of what you are trying to achive would help.
     
  16. #16
    mr_tripp

    Well-Known Member

    Posted May 5, 2011
  17. #17
    John0872

    Member

    Posted May 5, 2011
    PJ,

    Looking at your diagram, I noticed you have the ground and neutral bonded in the spa panel. I'm really new to this, but I thought that was only supposed to be done in the main panel?? I'm not questioning it, since I know next to nothing, just looking for clarification.

    Thanks,

    John
     
  18. #18
    P-J

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted May 6, 2011
    "using a 240v 60amp dryer outlet"

    Hmmm.. Dryer outlets are 30A & Electric ranges are 50A. What do you have for your power outlet? Also, is it a 3 prong or a 4 prong outlet. Is your place something that you own or is it a rental property.

    Lots of questions but situations change - depending.

    P-J
     
  19. #19
    P-J

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted May 6, 2011
    John,

    You are correct. However in the particular situation the outlet is a 3 wire device (dryer outlet) that is providing the 2 hots (240V) and a neutral. Using the spa panel to implement a GFCI breaker function allows the neutral/ground circuits to be broken out. This cannot be done in any way shape or manner if the panel were to be hard wired.

    Just consider a dryer plugged into a 3 wire dryer outlet. The dryer has both 240V circuits (heating elements and motor) and 120V devices (timer, buzzer and lights). The outlet supplies 240V and a neutral. The dryer cabinet is grounded through the use of the neutral conductor with a bonding strap.

    The NEC code changed a while ago to require dryers and electric stoved to be wired with 4 conductor circuits. The code change does not apply to circuits that were wired before this change.

    HTH
     
  20. #20
    mr_tripp

    Well-Known Member

    Posted May 7, 2011
    It's a 4 prong. 30A dryer. Sorry

    I own the house.

    Thanks.
     
  21. #21
    Garrett

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Jun 3, 2011
    Finally back in the country and ready to get started on this project. Funds are allocated and ordering will begin soon. Cant wait!
     
  22. #22
    P-J

    Well-Known Member  

    Posted Jun 3, 2011
    Welcome home.

    Please keep us updated on your progress.

    P-J
     
  23. #23
    burglar

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Jun 3, 2011
    See my build here.

    Good luck!
     
  24. #24
    Garrett

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Jun 6, 2011
    Well, ordered pretty much all parts today, I will post itemized list to keep this going.
     
  25. #25
    hrafnkell

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Jun 8, 2011
    btw that wall outlet is not necessarily connected to a 30A breaker - the writings on the box are just ratings for the wall outlet. Not necessarily what kind of breaker it's connected to.
     
  26. #26
    Garrett

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Jun 8, 2011
    This is the only wall outlet of its kind in the whole house and it is right next to the dryer in the garage. There is a corresponding 30A breaker in the box outside of my house as well.
     
  27. #27
    Garrett

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 23, 2012
    Well a year later and this is finally done! Not going to get into why this took so long but it will be on its maiden voyage tonight. I'll post updates..



    image-2526792766.jpg
     
  28. #28
    Antler

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 25, 2012
    Well how did it go!?
     
  29. #29
    Garrett

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 25, 2012
    It went great, I am going to do a few more batches later this week and post pictures. Everything went smooth, I was actually above my OG the recipe called for. I did ed worts Bavarian Hefeweizen, its fermenting away right now!
     
  30. #30
    Antler

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Sep 25, 2012
    That's awesome! Post some pics of your next batch in progress! I've been wanting to build a setup like this for a while now but seems there's always something more important to spend the money on. Someday...
     
  31. #31
    Garrett

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Oct 1, 2012
    Alright so I just finished up a 10 gallon batch of a Belgian Blonde with Lavender. I was doing this solo today so im sure it could be more detailed with pictures, but I did that best I could!

    Heres a picture of the rig:

    [​IMG]

    1. Fill kettle with 14 gallons of filtered water.

    [​IMG]

    2. Heres the current Temp of water (red #'s) from PID, going to be brought up to 160 degrees.

    [​IMG]

    3. While waiting for that, I went ahead and got the handy basket that was included with the kettle prepped by lining it with my bag.

    [​IMG]

    4. Poured in the Grains

    [​IMG]

    5. Kettle is at temp now, dunking the basket in the kettle and beginning the mash

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    6. Temp has dropped down right where I want it and now let it mash for 90min!

    [​IMG]

    7. Once done I left the basket and let all the wort drip down in to the kettle, once it starts slowing down i put the basket on top of a pot on the ground and squeeze the excess liquid out to dump back into the kettle.

    [​IMG]

    8. Turn up the temp on the PID and begin boiling for 90min(lots of pilsner malt)

    [​IMG]

    (heres an extra picture of the whole rig during the boil with my ingredients laid out ready to be added.)

    [​IMG]

    9. Once the boil is done I put my immersion chiller in and cool down to 75 degrees.

    [​IMG]

    (temp dropping)

    [​IMG]

    10. Ready to pour in the fermenters!

    [​IMG]
     
  32. #32
    Antler

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Oct 1, 2012
    Great setup! When I convert to electric I plan on having a pump to recirculate during the mash.
     
  33. #33
    mahe

    Active Member

    Posted Nov 15, 2012
    Great looking setup, I'm looking to do something similar.

    Question, aren't you worried about tannins in step 7? I was taught that if you squeeze the grains you would extract tannins, but I could have been mislead.
     
  34. #34
    hrafnkell

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Nov 15, 2012
    Tannins aren't an issue when squeezing the bag.. It's a misunderstanding. Temperature is more of an issue, if you go over 80°C or thereabouts.
     
  35. #35
    mahe

    Active Member

    Posted Nov 15, 2012
    Wicked, thanx heaps.
     
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