Looking to move to BIAB, any pointers?

I've been doing extract, but I'm thinking about moving to BIAB. From what I can tell, I'm going to need a false bottom (colander?) and a big grain bag. The couple tutorials I've found seem simple enough, but then everyone chimes in with comments saying that the simple approach laid out in the tutorial is too simple.

So, beyond the simple "bring water to 155F, steep for an hour, drain, boil", what tips, tricks, or advice do you have?

 

I have used nylon paint strainer bags, 2 at a time. You only need a false bottle if you plan to apply heat with the bag in place. A stainless steel expanding vegetable steamer upside down with the legs removed works well. I use a stainless colander that fits in a bucket to rinse the grain to increase efficiency. Then I use two 5 gallon pots to speed up the stove top boil. Good luck.

 

I do pb/pm biab with the same 5 gallon SS stock pot I started with. The only thing I added was a 5G nylon paint strainer bag. I mash some 5-6 lbs of grains in 2 gallons of local spring water. Dunk sparge with 1.5 gallons @ 170F for 3.5 +/- gallons boil volume. I add 3 lbs of plain DME @ flame out to get OG. I keep a couple gallons of spring water in the fridge a day or two before brew day to top off with. Chilling the wort down to 70-75F,then topping off with chilled water to about 65F.

 

I'll have to see if I can keep my kettle at the right temperature for an hour without reheating.

I've read that steeping flaked grains for extract brewing is bad (unconverted starch causing haze and other badness), but is it okay for BIAB? Isn't BIAB essentially the same as steeping?

 

No,not really. BIAB is intended for mashing,whether that be AG or PM. but I have used the bag for steeping varying amounts of grains for E/SG beers. I wrap my kettle of grains up in my quilted winter hunting coat for the 30 minute steep or 1 hour mash. And steeping is not the same as mashing...

 

Hmm. Can you explain the difference? I understand what mashing is doing (converting unfermentable starches into fermentable sugars), but in what way does steeping not do that? (I steep at 150F, if that's relevant to the discussion...)

 

You can only steep things that have already converted through the malting process. Mashing is using the enzymes from the base malt to convert starches in the others. So you can't convert Munich without mashing with a base like 2row.

 

Oh and crush is key in biab.

 

BIAB is exactly the same as an all grain 3 vessel set up. You don't "steep" the grain. You're actually mashing it. This includes using a base grain that can utilize all of the starches from those other types of grain.

 

But my understanding (limited, correct me if I'm wrong, etc.) is that in a standard all-grain, the crushed grains act as a filter so that flaked grains don't basically dissolve and turn into mush in your wort. Is that also going to happen with BIAB?

 

Yup. You need a base malt's high diastatic power to convert the starches in all the grains used into sugars during the mash. Steeping grains,like some specialty, roasted,or caramel malts are converted already. I steep at about 165F (start) for 30 minutes. Either way,I've found dunk sparging @170F easier & quicker,not to mention giving me higher efficiency (ie : higher OG's).

 

Good to know, thanks. Double crushed?

 

I have been BIAB for about a year now and love it. The sticky about BIAB here is excellent source of info (not sure if it is one of the tuts you have seen). I don't use a collendar. I do stir pretty much constantly if I raise temp to mash out and have not had a problem. I bought a bag from someone that sells here instead of a grain bag (20 batches so far and the bag is still going strong). I have done some brews with falked grains (corn, oats, & wheat) with no problems. I have done the yuengling clone a few times (flaked corn) and they come out crystal clear. I also do the blue moon clone (flaked wheat) and others like it and there is a haze but it is supposed to be there. I have not had any other badness. I use a down filled winter coat around my kettle to keep the temp while mashing. In the winter months I might add heat about half way through to keep the temp within a degree or two. In the summer months I don't have to add. When I do add heat I stir constantly. There is an excellent thread on steeping vs mashing. The water temp might take a few brews to hone in correctly with the start temp & temp of the grain to get where you want it. There are calculators online as well as beersmith that will help figuring out the proper temps. When I buy kits online I ask for double crush, not sure if they do it or not. When I buy grain locally I do a single crush and things turn out ok.

Hope it helps.

 

That's another thing I've found interesting. If I get the grains crushed,they don't look to me to be evenly crushed. So I crush'em again in my Barley Crusher Grain mill at the factory setting of .039". If whole grains,mine gets a better,more even crush. With dunk sparging,my OG's are a bit higher than the listed ones for kits or recipes. Save for BS2,which when set up right,is on the button.

 

Are you going to be doing stovetop BIAB or outside/in garage over propane burner?

5-6 gal batches? smaller? larger?

I do 6 gallon stovetop batches in a 10G kettle. I crush my own grains with a corona mill. Very fine. I follow the advice of someone on here "tighten it till you're scared, then tighten it a little more". Before getting my mill, I would double crush at the LHBS

I mash with around 2.5 quarts/ lb and also do a 1.5 gallon dunk sparge in a smaller kettle with 180F water as a "mashout". Temps hold fairly stable over the course of a 60 minute mash. 7-8 gallons of water + 10-13 lbs of grain have a fairly decent thermal mass. I don't insulate my kettle in any way. I may fire the kettle once or twice if feel temps are dropping too fast. I generally stir every 15-20 mins.

Hoisting the bag is the biggest pain. If you're able to use a pulley then that can really help. I lift by hand then rest the bag on a small grate set over the kettle. You can also use a colander or just let it hang over the kettle if on a pulley. Wilserbrewer on here sells a nice little pulley. He custom makes bags to fit your kettle, too. Highly recommended.

I'm a bag squeezer, so that effects my water loss to the grain. You'll need to factor in that choice for your own volume calculations.

Crank up the heat as soon as you pull the bag. No need to waste time waiting for it to fully drain.

Spent grains are great for chickens or other livestock. Also good in the compost pile. Save some for homemade dog biscuits or spent grain bread.

Oh, also use clips of some sort or bungee cord to hold the bag to the kettle while stirring. You do *NOT* want that bag slipping down and coming open. Ask me how I know

 

Helpful info, thanks. I'll be doing it on a stovetop, 5-6 gallon batches in a 9 gallon pot. I don't have a grain mill, I crush my grains at the LHBS.

I'm a pretty big guy, so I think I'll be able to deal with 20-30 pounds of waterlogged grains. I might be singing a different tune after my first foray, however.

 

Oh man does that bag drain slowly when you're holding it up by hand. I find I can hold it longer if I kind of pin it against the microwave hood. Gotta clean that before it dries though.

If you have a large colander that you can set over a smaller pot to drain, that's a good option. Heck even an over rack (if clean) or SS cooling rack for baked goods (if sturdy) that you can slip under your raised bag and across the top of your kettle.

Get your stuff (colander, grate, dunk pot, etc) arranged and in reach before you hoist that bag. Or have a brewing assistant that hand you stuff.

Watch for splashing when you teabag or dunk sparge in another kettle. My 4g kettle can only hold about 1.5g of water with out overflowing when I dunk the wet grain bag. Hot wort is hot

It'll take you a couple of times to figure out exactly what works for you.

 

If I'm brewing inside, I have a little pulley on the kitchen ceiling I can use to lift the bag. If I'm brewing outside, I just lift the bag with one hand, put my mash paddle on top of the kettle with the other, and lower the bag onto the paddle for a few minutes. Easy-peasy either way.

I'd say the main thing you need if you're moving from extract brewing (aside from the bag) is a good thermometer. Temperature is really important, and I found my cheapo thermometer was about 5 degrees Fahrenheit off, which is a LOT.

 

I just did my first BIAB yesterday. So here is my experience and tips.

First off, if you are going to do big beers just get a 15 gallon pot, I got a 10 gallon pot and with the 17lbs of grain and the water I needed for the boil, my pot was filled to the brim. Now, this might be because my pot is very wide so I have to compensate for more boil off but still, I wish I would have at least found a 12 gallon pot. Another thing I wish I had is a custom BIAB bag. I plan to get one from WilserBrewer because of all the rave reviews he gets. The reason being the bag I got from my LHBS didn't fit all the way around my pot and just made it more difficult to make sure there weren't any dough balls or anything.

I did a 90 minute mash to ensure full conversion and I got 75% efficiency so I was glad I went with 90 minutes over 60. Maybe 60 would have done it but I wanted to be sure. I had to heat up my water about half way through the mash. I just lifted the bag and had my brewing partner light the burner. It got heavy holding 17lbs of grain soaked in water so maybe an upside down colander would have been better. It really wasn't a big deal to lift it, though, next time I will use a pulley to hold the grain.

I didn't sparge but I did wring out as much wort as I could from the grain bag. I used a couple quick clamps and a couple 2x6s to squeeze the bag without burning my hands. It actually worked better than I initially thought it would.

All in all, I am happy I made the switch! Good luck!

 

Forgot all about that part. I use floating thermometers in the mash or steep. Also for heating the sparge water.

 

I don't think you have your mill tight enough.

 

Flaked grains turn into mush either way.

It's just that with a standard setup, you have to be careful with your grain bed because if it collapses it drains really slowly or stops. This is called a stuck sparge.

When (not if) the flaked grains turn to goo when BIAB brewing, your bag acts as a good filter anyway. So you can squeeze the wort out of the grain bag.

And if someone tells you that squeezing a bag releases tannins, they are not correct.

 

Great info. I'm glad the BIAB can use flaked grains, as that's been one of the things bumming me out about extract brewing.

Regarding thermometer... why is my dial candy thermometer insufficient?

 

Have you been to BIABrewer.info?

 

The crushed grain acts likea filter for ALL particulates. The fine mesh bag serves the same purpose. Flaked grains work in BIAB.

 

Temperature is the most critical measurement in mashing all-grain.

If your candy thermometer is accurate and can distinguish every 2 degrees F or 1 degree C between the range of 140F to 170F, then it is fine for mashing all-grain and keeping the water at the proper temp for the sensitive enzymes to work.

Or, you could get a dead-on lab-quality glass thermometer for 10 $US from the LHBS.

 

Your candy thermometer may be accurate enough for all grain brewing but when the difference in how a beer turns out depends on only a very few degrees I prefer to try to have a thermometer (or more than one, sometimes they lose accuracy) that is accurate to within one degree. There is a difference in the final gravity of your beer between mashing at 149 and 152.

 

I've only done about 6 partial mash BIABs, but my system is pretty dialed in with 5.75 lbs of grain.

I have 3 pots I use but you can do it very easily with 1 pot if needed.

I heat 8.6 qts (1.5 qts to 1 lb grain ratio) water on the stove to the strike temp (usually 165-166) in a 3 gallon pot. I have a 5 gallon "mash" pot that I place on a heating pad set to "high" with a large nylon bag placed inside. I pour the water in and then add the grain while stirring to avoid "grain balls". I put the top on and wrap it up with a sleeping bag. I drilled a hole in the lid just large enough to stick my metal probe thermometer in. It will keep within a half of a degree for the entire hour.

Once the mash is done I dump the wort into my 7 gal kettle and let the bag drain over a SS strainer. During mash I heat my sparge water (8.6 qts) to 170 and put in the now empty mash pot and dunk sparge the grain bag for 10 mins.

With this process I hit 75% or more efficiency usually.

Hope this helps.

 

Yeah,I've found that the dunk sparge is definitely a better method. My OG's went way up. Above the listed OG more often as not.

 

One thing I'm not getting about dunk sparging - so BIAB is a full volume boil, right? Which means that you bring your entire volume of water (7.3 gallons or whatever) up to mash temperature and let the grains sit for an hour (or however long). If you do dunk sparging, you must have to hold some of that water back, right? How much? Doesn't that affect the pH of the mash, or is it not enough to mess things up?

 

Brew in a bag can be partial boil as well. Not just full boil AG. I do pb/pm biab myself. I mash,say,5-6 pounds of grains in 2 gallons of water. The dunk sparge in 1.5 gallons in a smaller ss kettle. Then add together to get 3.5 gallons boil volume in the same 5 gallon ss kettle I started with. I then add 3 lbs plain DME @ flame out to bring up the OG,or 3.15-3.3 lbs plain LME.

 

From what I read, you can do BIAB a number of ways. Some sparge, some don't. You don't need to do a full volume boil either. The maximum I can boil is 6 or so gallons without fear of a boil over so I start there by filling up my brew kettle with that.

The mash formula is something to follow more closely and I use the same formula (1.5 qt per 1lb) for my sparge. I do have some left over water not used in my mash or sparge remaining in my kettle. This leftover volume makes sense to me since I'm only using 5.75 lbs of grain vs 10+ lbs as in an all-grain recipe.

I also will need to top-off a gallon or so in the primary.

 

I usually have to top off with about 2 gallons of very cold water to get down to 65F or so before pitching.

 

I think at some point (early in the history of BIAB) the standard practice was to mash in a full volume of water and not sparge. Not sure what the benefit of this would be.

I just follow the 1.25-1.5qt/lb of grain rule of thumb. I use bru'n water to determine mash pH. Whatever water I need to get to my pre-boil volume is sparge water for me. Works pretty well.

 

I just did my first BIAB the other day using the no sparge/full volume method. I just squeezed the bag with some clamps and everything worked out fine. I hit my estimated OG right on the nose for 75% efficiency. My brewing partner and I high fived about it.

 

Great. Sorry if I made it sound like the no sparge method had any issues with it. As with many brewing techniques, there is more than one way to skin a cat. I was just trying to answer the question about how to sparge if you mashed with the full pre-boil volume.

 

No need to be sorry! I was just sharing my experience with it so far. I am wondering why I should sparge if I get decent efficiency doing no sparge haha! Basically the same feeling you have as to why anyone would no sparge.

 

Sparge for efficiency, no sparge for simplicity. The bump in efficiency means every nth brew is free vs. not sparging. Weather that's worth the time and effort is entirely up to you.

 

Yes,sparging definitely raises efficiency. Quite a bit ime.

 

This might be common knowledge already, but I've had a much easier time lifting the grain bag out of the water if I do it slowly (as opposed to yoinking it up out of the wort all at once). The buoyancy from the wort makes it easier to hold the top of the bag out of the wort and it essentially drains as you bring it up. It takes a bit longer but it's definitely easier.

+1 on the cranking the heat right away too, especially for stovetop BIAB. My first BIAB took me several hours longer than it should have for that reason.

My dog loves spent grain treats...just be advised that you're giving them a lot of extra fiber. It can be a bit...problematic