Is being an extract brewer such a bad thing?

To answer your question, No, extract brewing is not a bad thing at all. You are making beer and there are a lot of things you can do to make that extract brew a top notch beer.

I personally switched to doing all-grain because the process intrigued me. It really had nothing to do with not feeling I wasn't really making beer, nor does it feel now like I wasn't really brewing beer then. There are actually a couple of kits I brewed from Northern brewer that I keep telling myself I'm going to order and brew again. It's just at this point I've come to enjoy the process so much of all-grain, that when I do brew, I'd rather just go that route. Hitting my numbers right on the spot (SG, volumes, etc) it's just one of those things that appeals to me and makes it almost like a game to me. I use the golf analogy a lot when talking of brewing and how Brewing is my golf, and that fits again here. I don't just brew to make beer, I'm always trying to improve my process and my beers, so doing the steps that all grain requires is really that part that appeals to me.

The only thing I really don't like about brewing is the cooling process. That's the one part that always seems to turn the day into a rush and seems a little stressful to me. And either way, extract or all-grain, you have to cool the wort. So in the end, it's all brewing beer, it's just that all-grain adds more elements I enjoy to an already great hobby.

 

I like all-grain precisely because there's more things to potentially screw up. Then, when I make a really good beer using the all-grain process, I feel even better about it.

"HA HA! I AM VICTORIOUS! DEMON OF POOR MASH EFFICIENCY! DEMON OF OVERSPARGING! DEMON OF BAD MASH PH! DEMON OF MISSED MASH TEMPS! I HAVE DEFEATED YOU ALL! AND NOW I SHALL DRINK FROM THE HYDROMETER TUBE OF SUCCESS!"

It gets pretty crazy down in my brewery, with all the sword swinging and pillaging. If you ever come over for a brew day, you'd best wear a helmet.

 

Of course it isn't a bad thing. Just like any other process or whatever you have a give and take. With extract you lose some control over the brewing process and you will have trouble usually with making very light colored beer styles. In exchange you have a fast brew day and less opportunity to screw it up. I do BIAB, and I have the same give and take. People at the advanced end make similar cost/benefit decisions in other areas such as going with a conical vs. other fermentation vessel or going with an automated system.

 

Hello, There is nothing wrong with extract brewing what so ever, you can make some great beers with extract, and I have made great beers using extract and am having a heck of a time recreating 2 of them in AG batches, even using BeerSmith.

I however have been brewing AG for a while now and have to say per batch of beer it is way cheaper making a AG batch than the same recipe in extract, that is of corse if you don't include equipment cost.

Cheers

 

AG is just as simple, really. It's not like any of this is rocket surgery or pioneering effort. The science of it all has been throughly discovered and documented.

 

Beer is good. No brewing is a bad thing!

Some are dismissive of extract for various reasons. Whatever. They are the minority.

You sound like an excellent candidate for 1 gallon BIAB. You just need some muslin bags, gallon jugs, a thermometer, and maybe a large mesh strainer to rest on a pot. Brew in a bag, do a small batch to try AG, and if you screw up - whatever, make another gallon and try again! In fact get 2 or 3 of the 1 gallon jugs, and try different rests/techniques/grains. Mix it up!

I did my first AG batch not long ago and it was fun and interesting. I have more recipes in mind to try now that I "actually did it." It wasn't hard. The worst part was the waiting during the rests lol.

If you're looking at trying more recipes, and those recipes are all grain, take the plunge. You do get a lot more potential for variety and customization.

 

Jamil went on a mini rant at the end of the brewcasters challenge on the Sunday Session last week about AG/extract. He brewed an extract beer and went on about those who bag on extract are essentially ignorant. His big thing is that so many home brewers end up adding more control in fermentation when they switch to AG that they think it's just going AG that makes better beer. He says no way. Controlling and properly managing your fermentation has more influence on your final product than if you used extract or not.

That said, I just started doing 3 gallon BIAB no chill batches. It was strictly a monetary thing for me. Cheaper in the end to buy a fee pounds of grain compared to the extract.

 

I too struggled with the cost and extra work when I was deciding to switch to all grain. I got a great deal on some used equipment on Craigslist though. I watched the price listed come down, and when I felt like it would never get any better, I jumped on it, and have never looked back. The first brew was a bit rocky and not up to my standards, but I learned.

The major difference for me is that I can't brew alone, but I find I actually prefer that.

 

+1

A very common response to this question is "I used to brew extract then I started PM/BIAB/AG and the beer was better". I think many people aren't taking into consideration that with each batch they have more experience and more knowledge and have added other things to their process which is the main reason their beer is getting better.

I mostly BIAB but if I want to make 2 batches or need to save time and I will still make an extract batch from time to time and frankly I can't tell the difference in those beers because my fermentation, sanitation, processes and temperatures are well controlled.

That being said the reason I BIAB mostly is the I equate AG to Extract like I equate fresh fruits/veggies to canned/frozen veggies. I feel that when "cooked" right the fresh has more potential but I've definitely had frozen/canned that tasted delicious.

My two cents.

 

I totally need to brew with this guy.

 

I brew both partial mash & extract-only beers. Partial mash for when I have time to devote the extra 2+ hours, and extract for after-work-brewdays. (Don't have the stove or closet capacity for true all-grain.) With extracts, you can keep the malts tame and try out different hop combinations. For people to say all-grain is inherently "better", how is it any different than if you use all 2-row? I mean, I get that using grains gets you vastly more options, but it's not like extract is lower in quality (assuming it's fresh). And of course you can always do specialty grains or step that idea up with BIAB.

 

My all grain have been much better than my extract/PM batches. But I think you nail it on the head here. My extract/PM batches were the first batches. I pitched too warm, I didn't control fermentation temperatures very well, etc. etc. It could be purely coincidental that my all grains are better because they happen to coincide with me just learning better processes as I've evolved into AG.

 

I have to agree jgarretson. PM & Ag make you spend more time & thought on getting it right. so the beer comes out better. I spent nearly 2 years on what I came to call recombinent extract. They got pretty good,but I decided after study & questions to go PB/PM BIAB. When I can keep temps in line,the beers are way better. Def need to biuld that fermentation cabinet.
And to those that say you can't get lighter colored beers with extract,check this out;
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To the OP: To answer your question, not at all. Nothing is wrong with extract brewing, and you can very much produce great beer with extract.

 

I'm not only all extract, but all kits. My goal is to brew some tasty beers of a style that I might not be exposed to otherwise.

If your goal is to get a sense of accomplishment from pointing to a brew that you created a recipe for, milled the grain, grew the hops, adjusted the water chemistry, etc, then AG might be the way for you to go.

In my day job I deal with stuff where the difference between pass and fail can be 1/64th of an inch or a tenth of a degree. I love the analog nature of the kind of brewing I do. A week might mean ten days, 74 degrees can mean 68 or 78, five gallons can mean 630 fluid ounces.

I admire the folks who carry that level of control into their brewing, but I get all of that I need from 9 to 5.

Besides, if I started down that slippery slope, I've got physics, math, and chemistry departments that would make me nuts.

Enjoy whatever style brewing you decide to do.

 

i think most brewers would get better beer if they invested first in temperature control and second in all grain

 

I see this turning into the same old debate. All grainer's extolling the virtues of their way,& poo pooing the extract brews with their lower amount of control.
I think they're all good when you develope a good process & get some knowledge & experience under your belt. Besides the right equipment purchases. Then they can all come out great.

 

In lieu of kits, if you have a little time and some inclination, you can create your own recipes using this book: Designing Great Beers. It's so easy to put together a recipe for just about any style, and then tinker from there if you want. For example, if you wanted to put together a "classic" Scotch Ale, you could do so in like 5 minutes - go to the Scotch Ale chapter, see what types of grains (and extract/specialty grain equivalent), hops and yeast profile usually go into it and you're done. But you can also go in whatever direction you like, as you'll get more control over what the beer is comprised of, not boxed in by the kit offerings.

My first 3 batches were Brewer's Best kits, my next two were recipes I got online, but since then I've created every recipe myself. Even if you're staying all extract, you can still learn a lot about tons of different styles with this book. Can't recommend it highly enough!

 

I can brew an all-grain batch for less than $10.00. However, then again, I maintain my own yeast bank on agar slants and purchase my ingredients in bulk.

 

An extract brewer can have complete control of their recipe as long as they use pale LME. With dark, gold, marris otter, or amber LME nobody knows for sure what else is in the malt. With pale LME you can use specialty grains to get color and flavor, just as you would with AG base malts. Then you just have to figure out a hop schedule.

 

Hack! :cross:

 

Well, I'm in construction now, when it was machining it wasn't uncommon to deal in a few ten thousandths of an inch.

 

All grain FTW OP. I think extract is more work. Nothing worse than trying to dissolve DME in particular. And it's expensivo. I did one extract batch, then on to all grain. Like you say keep it simple you don't have to get crazy with equipment.

 

The next logical step in your development as an amateur brewer is not all-grain. You should make a couple of part-mash batches before stepping up to all-grain. Partial mashing will allow you to use the gear that you already own without forcing you to achieve a 27+ points-per-pound extraction rate right off of the bat. With partial mashing, you will be mashing a couple of pounds of base malt combined with specialty malts and adding malt extract to the runoff from your mash tun (this process is covered in The Complete Joy). Partial mashing is best done with a small 2-3 gallon round drink cooler. You will not need a false bottom or a valve with this setup. All you need to do is to line the cooler with a paint straining bag before mashing-in your grain and hot liquor (a.k.a. hot water). You can run the sweet wort off just by placing your thumb on the cooler's built-in valve. You will quickly know if grain-based brewing is for you.

 

There is a difference in taste between wort made with extract and wort made with grain. Extract undergoes chemical reactions when it is concentrated that alter its flavor profile.

 

You got a source for this information? I'm always a bit skeptical when people start talking about nebulous chemical reactions, and my google-fu is failing me at finding the answer.

 

Do tell!

Firstly, anytime you start talking about taste you remove any science from the equation. Next, If you do want to introduce science into the issue (and trust me, you don't) then I can introduce you to a battalion of iron pipe hittin' PhD's who will flog you mercilessly about every seemingly insignificant aspect of brewing beer.

Wanna talk water chemistry? Hell, I got people who can fill a semester just on that.

 

Banshee, are you set up yet to control your ferments at optimal temperatures?

As much as I enjoy being able to create/manipulate a recipe through selection of various grains and varying the mash temp, I'd put consistent, controllable ferment temp control ahead of that on the brewing hierarchy. I've tasted extract brews done in a fermenter fridge that were outstanding and some AG brew fermented in a 72*F closet that wasn't at all good.

You're going to want a bigger kettle. I'd go 10 gallon for 5 gallon batches. Building a mash tun manifold for a cooler out of CPVC is cheap and easy. The bulkhead/valve is a bit more involved, but not that hard. I think I spent about $20 and an afternoon making mine. Like you, I already had a 50qt cooler.

 

Most people that get at all serious about the hobby go all grain. I imagine that's because they're interested in more than just drinking, but the processes behind it too.

Extract is a fun way to begin, but wasn't involved enough for me and the way my mind works.

Do whatever you want, it's just beer. It's not a big deal.

 

I don't have a chamber or anything but I control my temps for the first 3 days using a swamp cooler. After three days I allow it to raise to room temp to ensure good attenuation.

 

Depending on where you live and how much space you have (or what SWMBO will allow you), a used Craigslist fermenter fridge/freezer regulated by a controller (I really like the inexpensive, yet effective, STC-1000) can be the single best brewing equipment investment you ever make.

It lets me brew using the yeast that I want to for the style and precisely control it for the desired result. It also lets me do lagers when I feel like it.

 

Not entirely true, but I get where you are going with that. Taste receptors do or do not respond to certain chemicals (cats, for example, do not detect sweetness - they lack the receptor), but the perception of taste is incredibly subjective. That's why I usually ignore anything that states "in blind taste tests" because, really, when was the last time you tasted something blind. Your conscious perceptions and impressions affect taste as much as the biology. Anyway, I get your point.

I also start getting skeptical when anyone says "Studies have shown..." Oh, really? What studies, exactly?

 

For those with more space constraints, I've actually rigged up a set-up similar to Yooper's cooler thing. It does a fantastic job, and while not as precise as a fridge, makes maintaining temp much easier than a traditional swamp cooler without taking up any more space.

 

+1 on this

I'm on the prowl for a second fermentation chamber (aka chest freezer with dual stage controller)

I know there are many who get GREAT beer without it, and many make GREAT beer without pitching higher amounts of yeast, and many who make GREAT beer without doing full-wort boils, or chilling to pitching temps in 10 minutes, and so on, and so on, and so on, but MY experience was that my beer got exponentially better when I 1) got sanitation figured out, 2) got precise temperature control on my fermentation, 3) started pitching yeast amounts based of the gravity of the wort and 4) went to all grain. That's the order that makes the most sense to me. But there will be as many opinions as there are posters.

 

i really dislike this progressive approach to homebrewing. we're not riding crotch rocket motorcycles or shaving with straight razors. it's just beer. while i did ease in to straight razors my first motorcycle was an R6. i also jumped straight in to all grain. anyone with the internet and a thermometer can do all grain. why scare people away from doing things the way it's been done for centuries?

anyone who understands the process (mash > boil > chill > ferment > bottle)can do it. what do you need the internet for? water volume calculators are handy, websites like brewtoad are good for planning batches, pitch rate calculators are handy, strike water temp calculators are handy. so with a handful of bookmarks and a thermometer anyone can do it. just research before you jump in to a batch. measure twice, cut once. my first batch yielded 3.5 gallons because i didn't understand water volumes. still made 3.5 gallons of a damn nice beer.

 

1.25-2 quarts of water to one pound of grain, right?

 

Honest opinion: Just do what you like. Extract and all grain can only be as good as the brewer him/herself. If you do extract/BIAB/AG and have a great process = great beer. Any one of those with poor processes = bad beer.

Some have a love for "cooking from scratch" when it comes to beer. Personally, I like the shortened time of extract. I brew beer because I like to and I like the results. When it becomes too much and stops being fun or you are spending too much on newer equipment just stick to what you want to do. The whole price of a kit vs amount per batch of AG is kinda silly. Time is money too, so if you want a XYZ Porter or ABC IIPA, its cheaper to just go pick up a sixer and kick back. Since you like to brew, get in as deep as you like, but DO NOT feel pressured that extract brewing makes you less of a skilled brewer. Have fun with it and don't try to keep up with everyone. Your own pace is fine.

 

I've got too many space hogging hobbies. I've got an 800 square foot apartment with no storage. I'm a cyclist (four bikes and the necessary accessories/clothing), a hunter (guns, bows, targets, tubs of hunting clothes and accessories), musician (4 bass guitars, 3 guitars, saxophone, keyboard, violin, amps) and an extract brewer (bottling bucket, fermenting bucket, glass carboy, accessories). Extract fits my needs perfectly. If I buy any more equipment for any of my hobbies I won't have a place to sleep!

 

I agree with all you said EXCEPT about the cost difference between extract and all grain being a silly reason. For me it is a IMPORTANT reason I brew all grain. After my initial equipment investment, I get to brew far more often because I'm paying 80 cents a pound for domestic 2 row, $1.08 a pound for Maris Otter, and pennies a pitch for slanted yeast with starters. Plus, the extra time is recreation, not inconvenience.

So I agree "to each his own", with no need to call any part of someone's rationale "silly".

 

Agreed with Homercidal. Nothing wrong with extract brewing. Brew that way if you like your results and enjoy the brewing process. If you aren't enjoying the process because you're bored, then change up the process and do all grain.

The wildcard here is money. What Clef said is right, you'll eventually recuperate that cost because all-grain is cheaper, but if you can't afford to buy the equipment up front then that fact won't do you much good. If you can afford it, and you're bored with extract, switch.

Don't be afraid to do partial mashes either. Even chiseled veteran AG brewers tend to keep a stash of DME in his/her brewery for the purposes of upping a high gravity beer, making starters, or correcting his/her OG. Partial Mash can help alleviate some of the "what if I miss my OG?" worry.