Initial Efficiency

I just made the decision to go all grain. I have been doing a ton of reading up on the process and slowly gathering all the necessities I recently downloaded Beersmith and I am stumpt as to where to start off with my efficiency. My equipment is as follows

30q (7.5g) stainless pot
5 gal igloo cooler mash tun (still gathering pieces for the bazooka tube)
6.5 gal ferment bucket (ale pale)
Cooking on Gas stove in kitchen with and ice bath to cool the wort

I still need a few things to get started and I am in no rush I was just pricing out how much my fist grain bill will be and I am unsure how much to buy cus I don't know my efficiency yet.

I plan on doing a Fly sparge as the slow process seems to warrant a higher efficiency. I would rather do it slow and right and have great beer.

Thanks in advance!

 

From what I have read / experienced slow sparging does not really do anything when you are batch sparging.

As for efficiency you will dial this in as you use your equipment. To start off 70% to 75% is not a horrible place to start.

 

Don't bother with fly sparging to start. Added time and very little increased efficiency.
I batch sparge and consistently get 83%.

A bigger kettle (10 gal) necessary to do full boil 5 gal batches.

 

Well Brewkinger, if your getting 80s in your eff then I wont bother with the fly sparge, ill just stick with batch sparging. Thanks!

And thanks Nsrooen ill start my eff out at 70.

Brewkinger you say I need a bigger pot, how big of a boil volume do I dare go? This way I can calculate boil volume with my now known eff

 

With your 7.5 gallon kettle, you could safely do 5.5 or 6 gallon full boils, especially if you use FermCap. This would give you 3-4 gal batch sizes of beer.

Partial boil is also an option if you want to still do 5 gallon batches.

I also wanted to add that I am getting 80% eff BUT
I have my own mill. The quality of the crush makes a huge difference.

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Brewkinger,
I have researched the product you described and I believe that it will help as I was worried about boil over and krausen blowout, I think at this point I will aim for a 5 gal batch, utilize the fermcap and dial in at 70 %, than you all for you help.

Cheers

 

Even with the FermCap, you will be DANGEROUSLY close to boilovers with 7+ gallons in a 7.5 gallon kettle.

I would either dial it back and do 4 gallon batches (so 6-6.5 gallon preboil) WITH FERMCAP and REMOVE FROM HEAT WHEN YOU MAKE ADDITIONS AND THEN WATCH IT LIKE A HAWK!!!!! and bring it back to boil slowly.

(I sincerely hope that if you choose this option that you at least are brewing outside. A boilover on a stove is nasty, messy, sticky and it pretty much ends the brew day until the cleanup is done.)

OR

GET A BIGGER KETTLE.

7+ gallons in a 7.5 gallon kettle is simply asking for trouble and not worth it, even with FERMCAP.

 

Sounds good, Sir.

I would like to say I never wanted to push the boil over 6.5 gal anyway I have read and absorbed too much from people just as your self have described a ruined brew day due to boil over.

I guess the reason I say a 5 gal batch is that in the BeerSmith I have a recipe for a 5 gal with a 6 gal preboil



This is the recipe I was looking at. I am planning on mashing in my mash tun and was going to fly sparge till I hit 6 gal in my kettle however I think I may figure the #s for the batch sparge as either will get me to my 6 gal preboil. This computation may still be off as im not sure I have my "losses" set properly in the program.

BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Dr Smurto's Golden Ale
Brewer: BIABrewer.info
Asst Brewer: Designed by Mark Smith
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (45.0) Mash at 66 C or 151 F. This is Dr Smurto's favourite version. This beer is one of the most widely home-brewed beers in Australia, extremely popular to a wide range of palates and a robust recipe meaning that it can be varied in many ways with little risk. Source: Mark Smith

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.01 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.51 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.30 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.30 gal
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 7.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 32.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5 lbs 13.3 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 60.1 %
1 lbs 15.0 oz Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 20.0 %
1 lbs 7.4 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 15.1 %
7.4 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.8 %
0.56 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 18.3 IBUs
0.73 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 14.4 IBUs
0.22 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 -
0.80 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
0.9 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 9 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 9 lbs 11.1 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 26.86 qt of water at 161.5 F 152.0 F 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: If steeping, remove grains, and prepare to boil wort


Brewkinger, thank you very much for all your advise trust me it has not fallen on def ears

 

I would fill your pot up with 6 gallons of water and test how long it takes to bring to a boil. Then boil for 60 or 30 minutes to get an idea of boil off rate.

I probably have the same pot that you have. I just did a 5.5 gallon batch with a pre boil volume of 6.4 gallons. I typically lose 0.75 gallons an hour. This beer was a 60 minute boil. Pretty much exactly 5.5 gallons going into the fermenter when you account for hop absorption and trub. It does take awhile to get the boil going. I usually put an alarm thermometer in the kettle set for 210. I cover the pot to get to temperature faster. At 210, I remover the lid. Always boil uncovered.

You will also need a second large pot or cooler for your sparge water.

Also, there are two types of efficiencies.

Conversion Efficiency and Brewhouse Efficiency. Conversion Efficiency is how much sugars you extract from the grains. Brewhouse efficiency is what is your Initial gravity going into the fermenter. Usually you will want to have a Brewhouse efficiency around 70%. Your conversion efficiency will usually be around 80% or higher. Your final efficiency is always lower because you will lose liquid due to hop absorption and trub. As an example with the beer I brewed above after mashing I had 6.4 gallons which correlated to a Conversion Efficiency of 83%. When I was finished and had 5.5 gallons in the fermenter my brewhouse efficiency worked out to 71%.

Just take detailed notes so you can make adjustments on your next brew.

 

NTexBrewer,

Thanks! I had not though of doing a test boil to estimate boil off, defiantly will do.

I also have couple of other pots capable of holding enough for a sparge tank I will eventually invest in another cooler for a hot liquor tank but I think it will be a 10 gal that way I can start stepping up to larger batches later on. I do have a 52 Quart tamale pot (aluminum) in storage, I would have to clean it very thoroughly as its been used in numerous applications I may have to adopt if from the SWMBO...

the conversion and the brew house efficiency info is good stuff I hadn't realized that they weren't synonymous.

Thanks Again!

 

Also....don't beat yourself up if you first efficiency winds up in the 60's...or even fifties!! Many things can cause low eff. and IMHO the biggest is the quality of your crush (which your only going to be in control of when you start milling it yourself) This is a learning experience, and a fun one, at that.

As for sparging personally I would also recommend you skip the fly, and start with batch sparging. Not only is it faster, but there is less to worry about ( i.e PH levels etc).

Just relax, have fun, and share you experiences

 

Patthebrewer,
I will be batch sparging thanks to this thread and the helpfull responses I have received.

My plan will be calculate a grain bill in beersmith at 70%,brew house eff, use some anti foam, and make a batch that ends up bottling and able to drink. As many posts in the beginners forum have said "relax, you will make beer" and so I shall

 

Ok, so back to a little more help with your batch:
Like we all agreed, 70% BREWHOUSE is a good place to start; brewing programs like BeerSmith use that value as a default.
Don't focus on this number for now. It will make more sense in a few batches.

To calculate the CONVERSION efficiency for the grain bill you are planning, remember that the quality of your crush plays a big role.
Do you crush your own grains or at LHBS?

If you have not already done so, look into the BeerSmith program. It's the best $24 that I spent thus far.
There are other good programs but BS works well and has good support.

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Brewkinger,
I will have to have my lbhs grind from me, however I'm sure they will do a good grind due to it being Ballast Point brewery home brew mart.

And beersmith is on the list 24 bucks is a drop in the bucket compared to all the gizmos and other helpers it has, also I researched all the programs on this forum and it's by far the most popular

I would like to thank all you for your help, it's definitely making it easier to establish a process and direction

 

Post your grain bill on here and I'll plug in some numbers for ya.


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BeerSmith 2 Recipe Printout - http://www.beersmith.com
Recipe: Dr Smurto's Golden Ale
Brewer: BIABrewer.info
Asst Brewer: Designed by Mark Smith
Style: American Pale Ale
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (45.0) Mash at 66 C or 151 F. This is Dr Smurto's favourite version. This beer is one of the most widely home-brewed beers in Australia, extremely popular to a wide range of palates and a robust recipe meaning that it can be varied in many ways with little risk. Source: Mark Smith

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.01 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.51 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.30 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.30 gal
Estimated OG: 1.047 SG
Estimated Color: 7.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 32.7 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 70.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 70.0 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
5 lbs 13.3 oz Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 60.1 %
1 lbs 15.0 oz Wheat Malt, Ger (2.0 SRM) Grain 2 20.0 %
1 lbs 7.4 oz Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 15.1 %
7.4 oz Caramunich Malt (56.0 SRM) Grain 4 4.8 %
0.56 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 18.3 IBUs
0.73 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 14.4 IBUs
0.22 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 -
0.80 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min Hop 8 0.0 IBUs
0.9 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 9 -


Mash Schedule: BIAB, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 9 lbs 11.1 oz
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Saccharification Add 26.86 qt of water at 161.5 F 152.0 F 75 min
Mash Out Heat to 168.0 F over 7 min 168.0 F 10 min

Sparge: If steeping, remove grains, and prepare to boil wort
Notes:
------


Created with BeerSmith 2 - http://www.beersmith.com
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This recepie is in the samples list of beersmith2 in the trial version I downloaded something like this is what I will be aiming for. I think I will be using White labs WLP001 to start as I will be washing it for a couple of goes (to keep the cost down). if you have any other suggestions or versions please feel free to throw em at me.

Thanks again.

Prost!

 

Just realize that this recipe is designed to be done BIAB and not mashed in a cooler like you want to do.

So your water volumes are all confusing.

Make sense?


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Wow I hadn't noticed that till now. And I am glad I am still in the beginners forum lol... I did mess with the trial beersmith program and got a recipe started, but what I'm really looking for is a very simple American Amber ale, something like 6-8 lbs of 2 row, 2-3 types special/carmal/Cristal... And like 2 types of hops Iwas thinking cascade for the long boil and aAmarillo for aroma at the end...

 

Have you figured out the "losses" for your equipment setup yet?

How is your cooler/mash tun set up?

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By the way, this sounds like a good place to start.
Look up the recipe subforum here on HBT and see if something catches your eye.



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I watched the tutorial for the BeerSmith program and I set mine similar to theirs as my tun was what he described. I said 0.75g loss to trub and 0.75g loss to fermenter, and I did a "test" boil yesterday and lost 0.5 gal for a 60 min boil.

Mash tun is a 5 gal Igloo and I'll be hopefully building the bazooka tube/screen sleeve this weekend, depending on the availability of prices I may do a pipe manifold, I will just have to see as all those pieces will be a donation from a neighbor...

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What about loss to dead space in your cooler?

0.75 gallons seems like a lot to trub loss ( highly hopped batches will absorb more)

With these amounts, you will need a preboil volume of 7 gallons roughly.

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I think the losses for dead space was set at 0.5 gal, and I agree these all seem pretty high, I'm thinking of dropping them to 0.5 it just seems like a closer number to start with.

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http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=100304

Think I'll try Yooper's ale

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You will not regret that decision. Delicious!!!!

Keep track of your numbers for losses and adapt and change BS for future batches.

Good luck and happy brewing.


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Brewkinger,

You've been an immense help and I thank and salute you!

 

No problem whatsoever.

This forum and specific members were instrumental in my accelerated progress as a brewer.

Just fulfilling my obligation and paying it forward.
Brew on young padowan!


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