Influence of the amount of grain on body

Recently, I brewed 3 different "Bruin Dubbel" and I slightly missed the targeted volume of two of them as I was testing new equipment.

The first one ended up with 12L in the fermenter instead of 10, the second one with 9L and the last one with exactly 10L.

Mash schedule was typical for the style: 20' at 55°C (131°F), 40' at 62°C (144°F), 30' at 70° (158°F) + 10' mash-out

The beer with 12L instead of 10 turned out to lack body, the one with 9L to have a lot of body and the last one to be in between.

It might sound like a stupid question (I'm still quite green at brewing), but I kind of expected the opposite, I thought "More fermentable sugars will result in a more alcoholic beer with less body".
The one with more fermentable sugars (= 9L volume) was indeed more alcoholic, but I didn't expect it to have more body.

Did I miss something?

 

The beer with less volume has a higher concentration of fermentable sugars, hence the higher ABV. However, it also has a higher concentration of non-fermentable sugars, proteins, and whatever else is in beer, so it has both more alcohol and more body.

A similar question I've wondered about that I'll piggyback in here is about the impact of mash efficiency on a finished beer. I've wondered how efficiency affects body and other perceptive traits in otherwise identical beers. If the OG and FG are the same, but one beer required more grain because of lower efficiency, how would the finished beers differ. I often achieve 85%+ mash efficiency and I sometimes wonder if my beer would taste or feel different if I were getting lower efficiency and using more grain to compensate.

 

Thanks for this.

Regarding efficiency, I read that shooting for high efficiencies and/or bragging about it is a bad idea, because that increases the risk of off-flavors.
Better and simpler to add some grain.

 

Which off flavors are you worried about? A lot of people on here get pretty high efficiencies without complaining about off flavors.

The biggest reasons to not worry too much about your efficiency number is the added work of trying to squeeze a couple extra points out of your grain might be worth less than spending an extra dollar or two on your grain bill. Also, if you have a traditional 3 vessel system, grinding too fine can cause stuck sparges. There is also the time commitment of fly sparging, which produces the best efficiency results when done correctly.

All of these are ways to boost efficiency, and there is a legitimate argument to make that buying a little more grain is a better choice than spending the time and money to maximize everything. It all depends on what your goals are, and how much "wasted" sugar from your grain you are comfortable losing.

I haven't heard about high efficiency leading to off flavors, though....

 

I think that was this http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=329566
Not totally sure if I read it there or somewhere else.

 

Body comes from complex starch. The starch is in the ends of the kernel and it is heat resistant, it is hard starch. Although the temperatures used during the rest periods are very good, they were not high enough to release amylopectin, except at the end during mash out. Then, it is too late as enzymatic action is curtailed. A and B Limit dextrin are responsible for body. Dextrinization occurs at 149F. Use the decoction method and step the main mash temperature by using boiling mash. Step the first decoction, as well, 122F rest 20 minutes raise to 155F until saccharification occurs. Then, boil the decoction for at least 20 minutes. Boiling to hot break is better. Skim off hot break in the decoction and wort boiler, as well. Boiling will burst hard starch and enzymes will do their trick on amylopectin during the higher temperature rest periods. During the maltose rest, native glucose released by alpha during the decoction rest at 155F and glucose released by proteolytic enzymes during the 130F rest will convert to maltose (di-saccharide) and maltotriose (tri-saccharide) during the maltose rest. Conversion occurs when glucose is converted into a more complex sugar by Beta. It is a result of molecular action. Beta is fragile and denatures quickly at the higher Alpha temps. A secondary fermentation vessel will be needed because maltose ferments at a slower rate than glucose. Do not confuse sweetness with body, even though, limit dextrins are nonfermentable, they are tasteless. Iodine will not tell if saccharification or conversion occurs. It only indicates whether starch is or isn't present. Check out Weyermann's site for recipes, most of their recipes are for the step mash method. Buy very fine malt. Kudos for using the step mash method. Next, work with the decoction method. Boiling mash, boiling water, no difference. Sparge down to 1012 and do not worry about target volume.

 

The expert has spoken!
Impressive.
I will meditate every line of this.
Thanks.

 

I like employing the decoction mashing for mashout, and if I have time going from 143 to 156-158, but I have a hard time doing it from 122 to the 143 because of the amount of time needed and have seen very low heading when doing a protein rest for longer then 20 min. You might get away with it from a floor malted pils. That's why I use a step infusion for the first stage and do decoction for the rest. Just my opinion and it takes about 12-19 weeks to get the finished product so empirical evidence is on going,..............somebody has to do it.