How should I upgrade my system?

I'll put the TLR up first: Should I begin to upgrade my system to a better, all stainless, three kettle system, or should I begin upgrading to a 10 gallon system?

As it is now, I have a 5 gallon system (2x 5 Gallon Coolers for MT/HLT, and a 8 Gallon brew pot. My parents bought me a 14.5 Ferminator a couple years back for Christmas so I've been basically brewing twice and combining the batches within the ferminator on the same day. As you can imagine this creates quite a long brew day. So, it is time to upgrade, but how should I proceed?

Currently I'm thinking about upgrading in 3 ways. Mind you, with both ideas I want to have a nice clean SS system rather than the plastic coolers. In other words either way I plan to use the Ss Brewtech InfuSsion Mash tun.


5 Gallon upgrade: Currently this is my main thought process. Mostly because I'm also planning to build a 4 tap keezer, and I'd like to have a different beer for each tap. Doing all 10 gallons would mean having more kegs, which is fine, but its also more money. I know that I'd also need to get some more 5 gallon friendly fermenters, which is why I would start with a Ss Brewtech Bucket, but of course I'd likely get a few more later on, and at their price it would be easier to set the money aside.

• 10 Gal Ss Brewtech Kettle + Thermometer HLT
• 10 Gal InfuSsion Mash Tun + Ss Sparge Arm
• 10 Gal Ss Brewtech Kettle + Thermometer BK
• Ss Brewtech Brewbucket

5/10 Gallon upgrade: This was my second idea, because then I could possibly do smaller grain bill 10 gallon batches if I wanted, but also be able to do 5 gallon batches without having too much head space. My only concern here is whether or not I could boil a 10 gallon batch in a 15 gallon kettle...?

• 10 Gal Ss Brewtech Kettle + Thermometer HLT
• 10 Gal InfuSsion Mash Tun + Ss Sparge Arm
• 15 Gal Ss Brewtech Kettle + Thermometer BK
• Ss Brewtech Brewbucket

10 Gallon upgrade: Of course this would just be to get the most use of my current fermenter, and suck up the fact that I'd need extra kegs hanging around. I worry about this set up though, because I'm figuring I could purchase maybe 1 piece ever 2-3 months, and really none of then would be able to be used in my current setup, I'd have to store them until I get all of the pieces. Not too mention I'm not sure how my current burner would work (cheap one from the local hardware store) so I may end up needing a new one of those as well.

• 20 Gal Ss Brewtech Kettle + Thermometer HLT
• 20 Gal InfuSsion Mash Tun + Ss Sparge Arm
• 20 Gal Ss Brewtech Kettle + Thermometer BK

All-in-all: where should I begin?

EDIT: Okay, so I think I may have a solution which would be at minimal cost, and do what I wish to do. I have decided to do 10 gallon batches, and after watching a video of a two vessel electric system (namely this long-ass video [ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjGkS0M0LgY[/ame]) I've come up with an idea to try out.

I would use a 20 gallon Ss InfuSsion mash tun and a 20 gallon Ss Kettle. I would Mash at my normal temperature for an hour, and have my sparge water to temp in the kettle. When the mash was done I would circulate the Mash to the kettle while cycling the contents of the kettle through the mash tun. I would keep the heat low and really monitor it until both reach my sparge temperature, then shut down the pump and let the full content flow into the brew kettle to begin the boil.

So, I would need to get...

• 20 Gal Ss Brewtech InfuSsion Mash Tun + Ss Sparge Arm
• 20 Gal Ss Brewtech Kettle
• 1 Chugger pump

Would this work though, or should I invest (later down the road) on a Blichmann Tower of Power and do a constant recirculation as shown in the video?

 

Go with the 20 gallon setup. You can start with the HLT and then get a BK and use a large cooler int he interim for a MT. 10 gallon kettles are great for making 5 gallon batches, not much else. If you want to make 10 gallon batches then a 20 gallon setup is what you would want. If all you ever want in life is 5 gallon batches then I'd go with the 10 gallon, sell your 14.5 your parents got you and use that to help fund your smaller setup.

I have a 20 gallon Stout setup, I didn't think I needed such a large size; but, life gets in the way of brewing so now all I do is 10 gallon batches...so consider your future brewing now or you might find yourself replacing everything in a few years.

 

I've been looking to upgrade as well. I'm kind of sick of my cobbled together rig that I've assembled over the last couple years. I've been looking around and I keep coming back to the new Spike System. It's a big upfront cost but I've probably spent more than the price tag piecing my rig together lol! I watch this video before bed every night

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdHmZwQgDhU[/ame]

 

I've dreamt of the spike system as well. I think I watched the video 20 times yesterday. While it would be a dream, I'm pretty sure I can't afford it.

As for not getting the 10 gallon system, and forever sticking to 5 gallon batches. You're probably right, and I'm sure future Troxs would be upset for going to a 5 gallon only system. Present me though believes 5 gallon system would be better for my life as it is now.

 

Ha you're suppose to help encourage me not bring be back to reality! However I do see they mention that Paypal offers 18mo free financing in their FAQ page. Maybe I'll have a couple home brews, crunch some numbers and make bad (amazing) decision!

 

18 months free finance you say. Hmmm. I wonder if I could rig an electrical jack for it on my back porch. Haha.

 

I do only ten gallon batches on a three vessel system with 15 gallon kettles. You could upgrade in stages; 15g boil kettle first, with both coolers as HLTs and the existing 8g pot as a mash tun (as you note, you would be limited in grain on 10g batches). Later you could add a 15g MLT and finally a 15g HLT.

 

I guess most people are partial to getting a 10 gallon set up - which brings a few other questions for starting a true 10 gallon set up. First: If I upgrade to a 10 gallon set up, could I fill a keg, pressurize it and then leave it at room temperature without worry? Doing 10 gallon batches (being that I currently only have room for two kegs in my kegerater) means having either 1 brew on tap until it runs dry and then moving on to the next. While a 5 gallon setup would allow for having two on tap at a time.

I guess in my mind I'm thinking that with a 5 gallon setup, and the cheaper cost of the Ss Brewtech Buckets I could potentially have 4 buckets and have them all full waiting for space in a kegs. I guess if I could store them at room temp in a keg though I could easily keg them and store the kegs indoors to avoid major temperature shifts.

 

I have pretty much that exact system with v1 pots and you can build it new for about 3200

 

I would take variety over volume personally. Sell the blichmann and build out a 5g focused system that can do the occasional 10g batch.

 

Sounds like you do a lot of brewing, if I was you I would upgrade the kegerator first. You can leave your beer at room temp but you would want to naturally carbonate it like a giant beer bottle. To carbonate at room temp you need over 30psi; my co2 regulators don't get this high.

I would aim for a 10 gallon setup even if you only brew 10 gallons on occasion. Upgrade your boil kettle first; 15 gallons is all you need and 20 is lagniappe. I can do 10 gallon batches easily in my keggles. Your old kettle can stand in as a HLT; I have never needed more than 30qts of sparge water. Your old burner can move with it to the HLT. Get a low pressure banjo type burner for your boil kettle; these are the big ones with lots of little holes. 100K btu is killing it. What is left is your mash tun, you may be able to do low gravity summer beers with what you have but you will want to get a 10-15 gallon mash tun. You will need to think about how you intend to hold temp on the SS mash tun as this requires more equipment. HERMS built into the HLT works great but adds a little over $100 to the project. Lots of people love their plastic coolers for mash tuns.

 

Or, go eBIAB and put all your money into one really nice kettle that does everything. Bonus: two less kettles to clean.

 

Since I have been doing 10 gallons .I seem to have more varieties .I split my batches different yeast or oak one ect... and I have a lot of it so it does not run out quickly .It takes about the same time to brew it .A lil bit longer .And clean up is the same .So I see it as same volume double batches .Plus I can have an A batch and B batch .A batch is where I fill my ferment from the whirlpool ball lock which is higher than the other. Which seems to get a cleaner clearer wort .And the B batch is just the one that's right off the bottom and seems to get more Trüb in it. So that's another variety.

 

We actually just came out with Brew Kits assembled from some of our more popular items. If it fits within your budget, I would highly recommend our 5 gallon kit, since it's offered at a discount relative to purchasing each item individually.

http://www.ssbrewtech.com/collections/ss-brew-kits/products/ss-brew-kit-5-gallon

Furthermore, our 10 gallon mash tun can really grow with you, since it can be used to brew 10 gallon batches like you pointed out in your second option. For example, if sometime down the line you decide you want to do only 10 gallon batches, you can snag a larger kettle and a Brew Bucket or second Chronical for split batches. Then use the same 10 gallon InfuSsion MLT and HLT. Or you can pickup the individual items you listed from the get-go.

Looking at the numbers, the real volume of the mash tun is about 11 gallons. Which means you would max out with a total grist weight of 25 lbs. At 1.25 qts/lb, you would have a total mash volume of 9.8 gallons. You could even mash thicker, but you might see lower efficiency numbers.

Furthermore, looking at a gravity estimation, 25 lbs of grain at 80% brewhouse efficiency, and a 10 gallon final batch size would yield you a maximum gravity of 1.070 or 17.5 degrees plato. Which isn't bad! Its not barley wine territory, but it gets you into the double IPA range.

The best way to look at it would be to brew 5 gallons of any super high gravity recipes, but you can easily brew 10 gallons of mid to low gravity recipes. Plus that doesn't account for any adjuncts you might brew with if you do Belgians.

All in all, I think the second option is your best bet, but the kit might work for you also, so I thought I would throw out the actual numbers to compare to your favorite recipes!

Cheers,
Michael

 

That is what I do. I always have more kegs on standby than serving.

 

Cheer Michael --

I appreciate the number layout. I did see the kit for sale, but unfortunately I won't be able to purchase the full kit right out of the gate. I would need to take time and upgrade piece by piece. I'm sure I could save and purchase everything outright all together, but it is easier to explain $300 spent to the Mrs. than it would be to explain the $1800 tab Unless of course you offer nice 12 month financing in which case I'd still rather go for a system with 20 gallon pots at this point. I'll just stock up on extra kegs for storage. More beer is always better right? I don't know many people that have said, "Man, I have too much beer!"

Honestly after really giving this some thought and taking what others are saying into account I believe I will begin moving toward a set 10 gallon set (20 gallon pots). At the end of the day we're talking about a ~$345 difference between 10 gallon pots and the 20 gallon pots, plus the option to brew barely wines with the 20 gallon mash tun is a plus. (I'm also a bit OCD and having everything look uniform, as in same size pots, is appealing to me.) While I'm sure I could make due with the 10 gallon mash tun over the 20, because I typically brew with a 6% ABV average anyway. It just doesn't make much sense to skimp, not when its only a difference of ~$150. It just mean saving two months rather than one, but the payoff would be better in the long run -- not that I think I'll ever go to larger batches or even do many high gravity brews. It is still nice to know that I can. It also makes it easier when creating a recipe to not have to think about the grain bill size. I know the 20 gallon will hold basically anything I toss in it for a 10 gallon batch.

 

I completely understand! We are considering doing a 10 gallon kit down the line, but we want to see how the 3.5 and 5 gallon kits perform first.

Piecing a system together definitely makes the cost more palatable! Let me know if you have you any questions on any of our gear, I'm happy to help. Thanks, and happy brewing!

Cheers,
Michael

 

This is the way to go. I brew 10 gallons of rye pale ale, dry hop one keg and now I have a rye IP{A and a rye pale. Or porter/coffee porter. The combos are endless even using a 10 gallon fermenter and just adding ingredients post fermentation. Sometimes I'll split the batch into 5 gallon buckets and use different yeasts.

 

Just a quick question. Are the ports for the re-circulation and thermometer on the Ss Brewtech kettle simply holes? As in to I need weldless thermometers/re-circulation arm?

 

I concur 10 gallons is the preferred path. I suspect you're a young guy if your parents are giving fantastic gifts like conicals for xmas. No disrespect, I wish I were a young guy again If this is true, my point is that sh*t will come in to your life that prevents your from brewing as often as you would like. The only guys brewing every weekend are the super rich, the super poor (unemployed), the singles without kids or GF, and the retired. If you not one of those, you'll be happy you have 10 gallon brews

On the MT, I brew to yield 10 gallons (~11 gallons to the fermenter) and while I love my 20 gallon SS BT MT, I seldom put more than 22 pounds of grain it. I could have made the 10 gallon work. Of course the 20 gallon (22) BK and HLT are a must in my opinion, no matter the MT size

 

Haha, yes, well. I'm 31 recently married, 3 year old, and 3 month old. Wife is stay at home while I work a full time plus 20-30 hours a week for a side business. I don't expect to brew every weekend. I do expect to once maybe twice a month though. Either way. You're right the 10 gallon system would be best.

I'm pretty sure I'll be the same way as you in regards to the 20 gallon Ss Mash. I brew roughly 6.0% beers, so my grain bill will likely be roughly 22-24lbs. Assuming I still get the 80% average efficiency.

 

I skimmed through the other posts so hopefully i didnt miss anyone else but do you have temp controlled fermentation? If you do not have a dedicated fermentation area that is temperature controlled that IMO is the very first thing you need

I have had coolers and all that over the years and i would give up all of my equipment before i gave up my temp controller.. You can have the fanciest brew house on the block but if you dont control that ferment and pitch good healthy yeast then you just wasted a lot of money.

 

My mash efficiency is in the mid 90's with my SS MT , brewhouse is just high 70's mostly because I pump a long way to my fermenter and I don't care enough to try to improve it.

 

<



+

 

Mirilis, I definitely understand your point there. While I don't have a "temp controller" or a "dedicated fermentation chamber" exactly, I have been using my wife's sewing room. Basically its an 8'x20' room with a separate mini-split ac. The room was a bonus room we added when building the house. It is super overly insulated (as I did the insulation myself). Typically it'll stay between 66-70 in the room regardless of when I enter. Its not ideal, and I do plan to have something a little more permanent soon.

EDIT: Also right now my problem isn't that I have an "ugly" brew house. Its mostly that I currently have two old 5 gallon coolers (which need replacing) and an aluminum 8 gallon pot to do 10 gallon batches so that my nice, only nice piece, fermenator is filled.

 

LOL good luck with your future brews! I can only speak for me. I went from the stove top to a keggle and converted coolers, to a Brutus10, and now im doing E-BIAB.

I still have my coolers and i would go back to them and my keggle in a heartbeat before i gave up my inkbird temp controllers. Especially with how cheap they are these days. Ranco's were popular when i bought my first and they were ~$100 bucks.

 

Correct, the ports are setup for 1/2" NPT fittings so you can add one of our bulkheads for the thermometer or recirculation accessories.

 

You don't even have to pressurize the kegs you are not going to drink immediately. Just add the appropriate amount of sugar or malt extract and let them naturally carbonate at room temp.

It doesn't take a large equipment investment to brew 10 gallon 3 vessel all grain batches. I brewed them for many years with just two propane burners, a 15 gallon aluminum kettle, a 12 gallon canning pot converted to mash tun with a Smedling Easymasher, and a cooler. I didn't even build a structure, I just tiered them using tables of various heights when I wanted to brew and used gravity to move liquid. My total investment was less than $200 and I brewed that way for more than a decade.

Of course you can do BIAB for even less of an investment in equipment but you'll likely need a hoist to get a bag containing the grain bill for a 10 gallon batch out of the pot.

I will say that brewday is much more of a fun adventure now that I built a single tier structure, added natural gas burners so I never run out of fuel, control the HLT burner with a PID using a HERMS coil in HTL for mashing, and have a control panel running pumps to move or recirculate liquids.

 

Ditto on the Inkbirds. I've used an analog single-stage Johnson controller (bought for ~$60 in the 90s and used for close to 20 years before it was retired earlier this year), a single-stage digital Johnson controller for my keezer (~$90), a DIY dual-stage STC-1000 controller for fermentation freezer (~$45 for parts), and a dual-stage Inkbird for my wine storage freezer (~$45 retail but they're always posting 20% off coupons like the one I used). The Inkbird works as well as any of them though it was the cheapest and I didn't have to build it.

I liked it so much I bought one of their bluetooth BBQ thermometers, also with a 20% off code, and they sent me two of them! You go Inkbird.

 

If you are thinking about electric, check out this thread for e-biab, 5-15 gallon batches in one kettle.
http://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=573718