Got an off flavor

I seem to be having a problem with my hoppier beers. All of my best beers have been very malty like a Belgian Wit or Scottish Ale. Every time I make an IPA, APA or other hoppy beer I get this flavor that I thought at first was from Chlorine (polyphenols). I get it whether it is extract or all grain batches. I am now carbon filtering my water regularly and I still get it. I have even carbon filtered, boiled, then let it sit over night to remove chlorine and it's still there.

The off flavor is sort of hard to explain but I can smell it, taste it, and it comes up with a burp after I take a drink. I guess I would explain it as plasticy?

Recently I brewed two batches back to back, one American Brown Ale, and one Dark IPA. They were extract batches and known good recipes from the LHBS. The Dark IPA has this off flavor bad, the Brown Ale doesn't have it at all. I followed the exact same process on both of these and brewed them on the same day, fermented them both together at a temp controlled 65F. I did use a different yeast for each (us-05 (IPA), Cal. V(Brown)).

At this point I am wondering if it is a mineral problem with my water. I know Fort Collins has very soft water, maybe I should be adding minerals for my hoppy beers? I have also noticed that my beers don't have a nice um "smooth" hop flavor like a commercial beer but more "harsh". That is the best I can explain it.

Thanks for the help!

 

This is a really stupid question, but are you letting them age long enough once you bottle? Everything I've made that was well-hopped has been pretty nasty until I let it sit for a good month or so. One of the brews I've done a few times tasted like pine-sol for a few weeks, then was absolutely delicious later.

 

It seems to get a little better with age but is still detectable after a couple months. I also noticed it gets a little better as the beer warms up. Maybe that is just the malt overpowering it at that point. It really kills me on the aroma though, I just can't stand to smell my IPAs and its a travesty!

 

I had that aroma/taste once in an ESB. It did go away, mostly. I attributed it to the US Goldings. EKG next time!!!

 

It has happened with so many different types of hops. Off the top of my head would be; Amarillo, Cascade, Target, Northern Brewer, Centennial, etc. All of them when used in greater quantities...

 

Maybe you don't like hops??? j/k

 

LOL I loves them!

 

None of this will get rid of chloramines. Get rid of that (and all other chlorine) with campden tablets. Also read the following article about phenolic flavors.

http://www.carolinabrewmasters.com/examstudy/Offflavors.htm#Phenolic

 

rocketman this is great info, I think I do have the phenols. That site had a great explanation. However my city does not use chloramines, I checked into that already and forgot to mention it, sorry. Here is a copy of our water report:
http://www.fcgov.com/water/pdf/dw-chemicals.pdf).

Any other ideas that may cause phenols? I do usually use us-05 dry yeast with my hoppy beers, could this be the cause?

 

Water reports almost never list whether they are using chloramines or not. You have get the info by talking to someone at the water department. You can also tell by filling up one white bucket (larger the better) with your tap water, and another with distilled water. If your tap water has a more greenish tint, it has chloramines. You should just do a test batch (maybe 2 gal or something) using good spring water bought at the store.

If there's still a plastic taste, it could be any of the following:

1) You're using a chlorine-based sanitizer and not rinsing with boiled water.
2) You've got a recurrent infection (I think wild yeast typically makes phenols).
3) Your malt is just bad.

You just gotta test one thing at a time to figure out what it is.

 

Thanks for the advice, I will try these things and see if it makes a difference. I have it on good authority from others in my homebrew club and LHBS owner that we don't have chloramines in our water, but I guess it could have changed.

I use Star-San to sanitize everything and don't rinse. So I don't think that is it.

could be an infection although it seems too big a coincidence to just be my hoppy beers that get infected.

I doubt the malt is bad, this happens on all-grain and Extract plus I brewed two beers with similar malt bills on the same day, conditions, etc. and one has it one doesn't.

 

So the more I think about it, even thought the Dark IPA I brewed is hoppier, the American Brown is not all that low on hop quantity. I have had beers with about this much hops before that had the off flavor. The big difference between these two beers other than grain bill is the yeast. Both of these were brewed on the same day, same equipment, same temps, same fermentation area, same everything... The IPA has it, the brown doesn't.

Dark IPA:
Amount Item Type % or IBU
8.00 lb Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 76.19 %
1.00 lb Carafoam (2.0 SRM) Grain 9.52 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 9.52 %
0.25 lb Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) Grain 2.38 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Rye Malt (250.0 SRM) Grain 2.38 %
0.75 oz Warrior [15.00 %] (60 min) Hops 49.7 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [9.30 %] (15 min) Hops 11.0 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [6.30 %] (15 min) Hops 3.7 IBU
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [9.30 %] (0 min) Hops -
0.50 oz Cascade [6.30 %] (0 min) Hops -



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.060 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.061 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.013 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.80 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.26 %
Bitterness: 64.4 IBU Calories: 273 cal/pint
Est Color: 18.2 SRM Color: Color


American Brown Ale
Amount Item Type % or IBU
6.50 lb Pale Liquid Extract (8.0 SRM) Extract 74.29 %
1.00 lb Amber Liquid Extract (12.5 SRM) Extract 11.43 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 30L (30.0 SRM) Grain 5.71 %
0.50 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 5.71 %
0.25 lb Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 2.86 %
0.50 oz Target [11.00 %] (60 min) Hops 24.6 IBU
1.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.80 %] (15 min) Hops 17.7 IBU
0.50 oz Northern Brewer [10.50 %] (15 min) Hops 6.3 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [9.50 %] (5 min) Hops 3.5 IBU
0.35 oz Northern Brewer [10.50 %] (5 min) Hops 2.7 IBU



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Measured Original Gravity: 1.051 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG Measured Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.31 % Actual Alcohol by Vol: 4.82 %
Bitterness: 54.9 IBU Calories: 227 cal/pint
Est Color: 20.4 SRM Color: Color

 

Sorry no help yet. . . other than to let you know that I think I have the exact same issue as you (at least as far as I can tell from your description of the problem and flavor/aroma). I am working on narrowing down the issue as well, so if I get it figured out before you do I will definitely post what I find here.

 

I had the same issue when I moved to FL. Lot's of chloramine in the water. I replaced the garden hose with a drinking water hose, replaced all of my plumbing/tubing which hadn't been changed in years, and use the campden tablets in sanitizer, rinse water, and brew water...basically any water that touches the equipment. I noticed when I first starting using campden tablets that I when I was only treating the brew water, the residual water that was left in the equipment after cleaning (hose water) was still giving a slight off flavor. Try this and I think you'll be ok.

 

I've been wrestling with the same issue. I get what I'd call a rubbery or plastic-like off taste. Not horrible, but definitely not perfect. I working off the assumption that it's a phenol taste due to chloramines in my water. I added campden to my latest batch to see if it makes a difference. Unfortunately, I have to wait a few weeks for the answer...

 

OK so I know this goes against some people's opinions on here but I feel I should post my results. Nothing that I did to the water (carbon filter, boiling or resting, Camden tablets, or all of the above) removed the off flavor which I am very sure was a phenolic off flavor. It was always present in my beers fermented with US-05 dry yeast. I have stopped using that yeast and the problem has never returned.

My technique for using the dry yeast was to pitch directly into the wort after aerating, wait a few minutes then swish it around. I never did the re-hydrate techniques so maybe i was stressing it? Not sure.

So if you also have this problem and you used the US-05 yeast try switching it up!