Exploring "no chill" brewing

For anyone who has downloaded the No Chill Hop Adjustment spreadsheet (http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/exploring-no-chill-brewing-117111/index108.html#post3337930), I have updated it to use the correct chart designed by Pol. I had accidentally used the old one.

John

 

First no chill brew day today. If it turns out great, Im going to keep it up. Chilling is always the biggest chore to me, and it was pretty amazing to not have to do it.

 

Cool, I'm interested to hear the results I've never tried a no chill IPA. The hoppiest NC brews I did were English Bitters (not that hoppy), and they turned out good. If you have good luck I might have to try NC with and IPA

 

"The Victory webpage states that this beer uses German 2 Row for the base grain so I magine you could substitute Pilsnr 2 Row German for the PM 2 Row US that I used."

I have always thought the base malt was Vienna, based on this:
"Victory Hop Devil India Pale Ale
(Whole Leaf Hopped)

Brewed by Bill Covaleski, Master Brewer at Victory Brewing Company, Downingtown PA. www.victorybeer.com. The first time whole hops were used in 1516 Brewing Company. Winner in Conrad Seidl`s 2004 Bier guide, voted best ale at “Halleins’ bier festival Nov.05”. www.BierIg.org

Malts: Vienna, Caramunich
Hops: Pacific Pearl (Bittering), Tettnanger (Whole Hops- Aroma),
Cascade (Whole Hops-First Wort & Aroma & Flavour)"
http://www.1516brewingcompany.com/cms/beers/


btw - No-Chill has been working well for me. Thanks for this (and other) threads.

 

The is right from the HopDevil page:



Now that I look at my pic and the pic on the Victory webpage, I may increase the amount of Crystal 60 to get a little more red/copper in the color. Funny, I really don't remember HopDevil looking the red in any draught I have ever had. Well, I will have the option to have some at lunch today so I guess I will look at it firsthand and then make my decision.



Honestly, I think that they played with the lighting for that pic.

John

 

I really digging this no-chill and have been very happy with my final beers except that for the chill haze. Even 5 days in the fridge I still find my ales as hazy looking as a wheat ale. Has anyone had any luck using whirlfloc or irish moss to help clear their beers?

 

Irish moss works great for me!

 

Been no chilling for a couple years now. Beers are turning out awesome.

My last one "Goodnight Irene; Wicked Amber Ale"(1.062, SRM 12-15 I guess) was brewed during hurricane Irene. The power failed 45 minutes into the boil. I dumped in the remaining hops (4 oz whole cascades, Irish moss & yeast nutrient) and gave it a good stir. I covered and wrapped the brew pot in a couple towels and left it for the final 15min. After that I poured the HOT wort through my strainer into my bucket and covered it. I plugged airlock hole with a soaked sanitized cloth and let it sit till next morning. In the morning I sprinkled S-05 directly onto wort and let it go. Beer was in primary for 4 weeks. I bottled up last week (primed with 2/3cup brown sugar). Popped one open this weekend and man what an awesome beer. Great malt complexity and hop flavor & aroma.

If I hadn't been a "no-chiller" imagine the panic when the power went out. No chill=no stress!


Dave

 

Pitched a No Chill lager last night. For anyone thinking about No Chilling a lager but are worried about DMS: RDWHAHB. This will be my 3rd lager with an all Pils base and the first 2 had ZERO DMS, and no diacytl for that matter. Just boil for 75-90 min and no worries. Lagers are PERFECT for No Chill, because you can drop the temp of the No Chill vessel to exactly the proper temp you need at your own pace. Pitching lagers at 65-70F and hoping they drop to 50F before the yeast takes off is a gamble.

In terms of clarity, I don't think No Chill has ANY impact on final clarity. Meaning that there are other reasons for your haze. My clearest ale ever was a Scottish Ale that I No Chilled, and it was crystal clear from the very first bottle (no lagering).

Honestly, I think the brewers around me are getting sick of me ranting and raving about how awesome No Chill is. I've shown the technique to 2 other folks who are No Chilling almost every batch now.

I don't care for hoppy beers anymore, so I don't make them. But if I wanted to make an IPA again, I'd leave out my flavor & aroma additions entirely from the boil. At the time of pitching, I'd pull perhaps 1/3 to 1/2 gallon from the No Chill tank, then boil it on the stove along with my finishing hops for however long it calls for in the recipe (15 min, 5 min, flameout, etc). Then, I'd pour that into the carboy along with the rest of the No Chilled wort. .5gal @ 212F + 4.5gal @ 55F equals around 60-65F for the final temp as I pitch. I've done this with small finishing hop amounts (did it last night with 1oz Hallertaur for the Munich Helles I pitched at 52F), but never anything quite as hoppy as an IPA. Might be a good experiment for someone here if they want to do No Chill, but aren't sure about adjusting all their hops via Pol's chart.

 

Woah cool idea! I'm definitely going to try this.

 

While I don't doubt there could be other things in my process lending towards foggy beers, all my previous chilled beers have been quite clear, if not crystal clear.

Is there something else I can do during the brewing process, be it the use of additional ingredients, boil time, etc, that would help?

 

Clarity is something that "just works" for me for beers I want it to without me thinking about it too much. All my lagers drop clear after a few weeks, and my malty ales seem to do the same. My beers with late hop additions or dry hops all seem to be cloudy, as do my wheat beers and brown ales. Fortunately, this isn't a problem stylistically for these brews (well, I'd like the browns a little clearer maybe...). Especially with the hoppy beers, the haze never clears, even after lagering.

For the record, I use whirflock on all my beers (even wheats) and I boil pretty vigorously in a turkey frier for 60-80 mins.

There are several post-fermentation products out now to help with haze. The names escape me at the moment, but ask at your local home brew shop. If you aren't opposed to non-vegan beer, try Isinglass or gelatin. (They aren't for me, but to each his own)

 

OK...Updated my E-Biab w/ No Chill experiment (post #1081).

John

 

Great, thanks for the information. I am going to give Whirlfloc a try and start using Irish Moss in my beers again to see if that helps clear them up. Other than the cloudiness, I am really loving No Chill. Beers turn out just as good as chilled, minus the immense hassle and wasted water of chilling.

 

My west coast IPA with 6 oz of late hops, both whole and pellet was the second clearest beer I ever brewed. The first was an ESB with gelatin for clearing. My Munich lager never cleared in the keg and when I bottled with the beer gun it only cleared a little more in the fridge.

I think yeast has a lot to do with clarity.

 

A little (okay a lot) off topic. You mentioned in your #2 Update that you saved back some wort for a starter. I have often read that you want to keep your starter at 1.020-1.030 OG. Am I correct in assuming yours was 1.065? If so, have you done this in the past? If so, I would assume you have good results?

Thanks.

 

It's called a Real Wort Starter (RWS), the thought is that you are acclimating your yeast to the actual wort you are going to be pitching it in to. I've done 5-6 RWS's in the past without any issues.

 

Thank you.

 

No worries. FWIW, since my groundwater temp is pretty low & I've got a plate chiller, I've all but stopped doing No-Chill batches. I do support the idea and can say that it worked wonderfully for me, but I'm impatient so I am back to chilling my batches.

 

I'm with wyzazz now.... I did about 30 no chill batches using the 'cool in the kettle' technique. Then I borrowed a buds wort chiller and frankly, it was pretty easy to get it chilled and pitched; didn't take more than 30 minutes to chill and another 10 to get it into the fridge.

As a result, I bought copper on line earlier this week and will have an IC up and running soon. I still value the technique and I KNOW it works and would recommend it to anyone familiar with proper sanitation techniques. For me, no chill was a cost savings necessity (I didn't want to invest in the chiller). But I found some inexpensive copper online and I'm going to take a year off and start chilling.

 

I can't remember if thsi question was raised earlier in the thread and I can't see why it would be an issue...

Can you fast chill (IC or CFC or whatever) after boil and still transfer to a cube for later pitching?

If the answer yes, I am going to see how my HopDevil experiment turns out. If I find that the hops are off (namely flavoring), then I may just go back to my IC but cube the beer rather than pitch right away. Quick dunk in a tub of oxyclean and then clean water really isn't that bad. The CFC...that's a different story!

FYI...I think the longest I would aver wait to pitch would be about 2 weeks.

John

 

No, you cannot fast chill, transfer to a cube and wait to pitch (not more than a few hours anyways). This is why it is called NO CHILL brewing. The wort needs to be very hot going into the cube to sanitize the cube and the little bit of air still in the cube. If you chill it first, you are no longer no chill brewing.
It's similar to canning vegetables - the heat sanitizes and then it's sealed to prevent anything bad from getting in the container. If you transfer when it's cool it will not be sanitary in the cube and your wort could and likely would go bad.

 

What if he sanitizes the cube first?

 

I always do this...boiling wort or not. I guess I don't know why this wouldn't sufficient.

John

 

You would want to sanitize the cube and purge it with an inert gas (maybe CO2) as well, and even that isn't within my comfort zone. The advantage of Non-Chilled wort going in to the fermenter is that it's hot enough to sanitize not only the cube but the air in the headspace as well once it is sealed.

I have never let my No-Chill batches sit more than 48 hours before pitching yeast, again it just isn't within my comfort zone.

 

NO. Don't do that for all ther reasons already given. If you've cooled it, just put it in the fermenter and pitch as normal.

 

That is a damned good point. Didn't even think of it.

Thsi is why I ask these questions.

Thanks,

John

 

No worries.

 

in all honesty, I don't know why you couldn't put cooled wort in a sanitized container for pitching later?
especially if you could store the cube in a cool location, then bring it out later and let it warm till its time to pitch.

 

You could, but it's not the best idea IMHO. The longer you wait to pitch, the greater your risk for infection. I do can some starter wort and let that sit at room temp for months at a time before pitching, but that is pressure canned and sterile so I'm not worried about it.

 

I left a brown ale in the No Chill cube for almost a month before pitching. The beer did not survive 2 parties once I tapped the keg. Delicious.

If your process is correct, and the No Chill cube is sealed airtight, then there's no difference in 2 days or 6 months, in my opinion. The Aussie's who started this whole trend did it because they were buying bulk wort, pre-sealed in jugs, which sat on store shelves for weeks/months before purchase.

Also, I urge you guys NOT to do the chill, then add to the tank. You would have to be 100% sure the tank was sterilized, and I mean that in the more technical sense of the word (not just sanitized).

We can get away with sanitizing our carboys as opposed to sterilizing them, because when we pitch yeast in wort, the yeast takes over the wort quicker than any remaining bugs that aren't nuked by the sanitizer. If you put non-pitched, cool wort in a No Chill tank, then any little bug that survived the sanitizing will be free to chomp away at that wort, without having to compete with the yeast. Anything more than a day or two, and you'll probably have contaminated wort to the point where you can smell the infection. Great for a sour ... not so much for an IPA...

(And on a side note, I don't sanitize my No Chill tank, I just rinse it out well before and after its usage, and occasionally I'll hit it with some PBW. Wet pasteurization from my wort is by FAAARRR a better sanitizer than StarSan can ever hope to be :rockin

 

I started doing the "no chill" thing a good while back. I asked some questions early in the thread and thought, "What the hell". I started out doing a partial chill out of fear of collapsing my Sanke fermenter. After dealing with that PITA for a few batches, I boiled 10 gallons of water, put it in a Sanke, corked it and let it sit. No damage, but a biotch to get the cork out. Now, I drain my brewpot to a Sanke (which I do sanitize becuase you have to really spin some hot wort to get all of the surface area.) and put a carboy cover on it, seal it with tape. I let it sit for a few days to get to ambient and then put it in the fermentataion chamber to pull it down to about 75F, pull it out, pitch it, set my controller for 60F and leave it a month or so. I would not let the "chilled" wort set for over a couple of days due to contamination concerns as mentioned by the above poster. So far (20 batches?), for me, this no-chill method is the greatest thing since Star San.

 

Good to know, I was worried about that (I use sanke's as well) so I always just used a sterile air filter on my carboy caps.

 

Never thought of a sterile air filter. I call it a carboy cover, it doesn't have a hole in it, but it fits inside the Sanke and has a lip around it so it can't (less likely to) be pulled inside.
BTW if you put boiling wort into a Sanke, don't put bare flesh anywhere around it. That stainless is not nearly as forgiving as plastic!

 

If this has already been mentioned I appoligize. I am at work and cannot read all of the details in every post but...

Is anyone putting the hot wort right from the kettle into their glass Carboy? Or are you gentlemen letting the wort cool in the kettle and then transferring? Thanks for the info.

 

... Of course cleaning and sanitizing first...

 

No do NOT put hot wort into the glass carboy. You have the possibility of thermal shock shattering the carboy. Also, if you cap it (as is the practice for No Chilling) then you run the risk of the carboy imploding once the vaccum inside builds as the wort cools and contracts.

No chilling is usually done in a separate container, see the begining of this thread for some links to a few choices. These containers are food safe at boiling liquid temps, and can seal air tight with their cap. Also, some folks use kegs (Sanke and corni) allthough a few report the keg failing under the vacuum. Finally, some folks simply cover their boiling pots with a lid and a few towels over that, but I don't recommend that approach.

 

Great info, thanks for the help.

 

i know one thing.... no chill in plastic bucket = ick.
don't try this one folks...take my word for it....NOT good.

I'll describe the flavors I got
corn silk/cidery
I'm guessing DMS.

one thing that is completely weird though, is that about 1 in every 4 bottles is good?
go figure...
I sample each one I open, and if it's ok I drink it...if not...well...down the drain.
I'm just glad it was a cheap cream ale kit that I ruined.
Live and learn...won't do THAT one again! LOL

 

Bah! Some of my best beers were no chilled in a bucket!