DIY/poor man's floating diptube for clear beer

[Mer-man]

funny thing, i poopycanned the floating tube and just put a regular old diptube back in. same problem, but now with just the tiniest flow of beer, mostly foam. im thinking it could be the post, or maybe its just clogged again.

its insane to me but even after a 3 day crash in mid 30s there are still lots of floating hop particles. big ones. its crazy. about the only thing i can think of at this point is to just open it up, pull the diptube and clear it, then put a filter on it so it doesnt clog again.

so annoying. what a waste of hops....

How much of your time and hops have you spent? (Rhetorical)

I use the red Cask Widges. I lager each beer for at least a week before tapping. I put loose hop pellets in my serving keg.

It’s a bit insane that stuff would be floating - I rock the keg vigorously during dry hopping, so maybe your hops are floating dry?

 

[SanPancho]

Not much actually. One hoppy session. 2gal.

Never heard of a cask wedge.

On myface group a guy had a nice diy float he seemed to like. This is where he got it—

Stainless steel float ball from autosparge replacement parts in blichmann store.

Then he just used some tubing to connect.

 

[mj1angier]

I got the float balls with the tube in the other day. I could get the tube on the ball end ok, but could not get it on the cut-down dip-tube.

I hit up ebay for a selection of silicone hoses to try. This one fits the best on the OUTSIDE of bot float ball end and dip-tube:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stock-2...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

It is a little ticker walled and is long enough to get about 9 replacement tubes out of. I did a quick test with water. I filled with the lid off and ball floats at about mid way of the ball so pick-up is abot1-1.5" in the beer. Put lid on and did pressure test and it poured fine. I emptied keg and pushed Sani-star back into it from another keg. Filled fine, but I could hear the ball bouncing of the wall ever now and then. I will let it sit over night and the push out Sani-star. I should be able to fill it in about 5-7 days and carb it up soon after. Hope to have report in 2 weeks on how well it worked.

 

[SanPancho]

I got the float balls with the tube in the other day. I could get the tube on the ball end ok, but could not get it on the cut-down dip-tube.

I hit up ebay for a selection of silicone hoses to try. This one fits the best on the OUTSIDE of bot float ball end and dip-tube:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/US-Stock-20ft-OD-10mm-ID-6mm-Silicone-Food-Grade-Rubber-Tube-Hose-Pipe/372114317802?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

It is a little ticker walled and is long enough to get about 9 replacement tubes out of. I did a quick test with water. I filled with the lid off and ball floats at about mid way of the ball so pick-up is abot1-1.5" in the beer. Put lid on and did pressure test and it poured fine. I emptied keg and pushed Sani-star back into it from another keg. Filled fine, but I could hear the ball bouncing of the wall ever now and then. I will let it sit over night and the push out Sani-star. I should be able to fill it in about 5-7 days and carb it up soon after. Hope to have report in 2 weeks on how well it worked.

which balls are you using? the fermentasaurus, the blichman sparge balls, or something else?

 

[SanPancho]

How much of your time and hops have you spent? (Rhetorical)

I use the red Cask Widges. I lager each beer for at least a week before tapping. I put loose hop pellets in my serving keg.

It’s a bit insane that stuff would be floating - I rock the keg vigorously during dry hopping, so maybe your hops are floating dry?

just got around to checking out the cask widges. looks promising. it looks like they just have a barb on the end you get the hose onto? do you need to buy the expensive hose they sell or can you just use regular silicone tubing?

 

[mj1angier]

which balls are you using? the fermentasaurus, the blichman sparge balls, or something else?

The ones like you have from Morebeer

 

[SanPancho]

cool. i'll have to hunt down some tubing, looks like you bought the last one on ebay.

 

[mj1angier]

just got around to checking out the cask widges. looks promising. it looks like they just have a barb on the end you get the hose onto? do you need to buy the expensive hose they sell or can you just use regular silicone tubing?

I looked at those today too ( working on a way to do a cask ale) and the US reseller is out at the moment. But they do look neat

 

[mj1angier]

Yeah the size is good. Find one that was not on a slow boat from China was hard, lol

 

[SanPancho]

i found a random website online that had 5/16 ID silicone for about a buck a foot, which was fine i guess. but didnt go as far as seeing the shipping cost. you never know. was also thinking of stopping a medical supply store over by the hospital, figure somebody has to have a few different types of silicone in stock over there.

my to-do list just keeps getting longer...

 

[stpug]

I use the same fermentasaurus floats in 8 kegs. They all work as you would expect them to, however I never used the provided silicone tubing. Instead, I picked up 5 meters of 7mmX10mm silicone tubing off amazon that slips over the diptube ends (easily) - almost too easily at times though it hasn't caused my any grief (knock on wood). If I was to do it again I would go with 1/4"x3/8" (something like this: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01LZHO44J/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20).

As far as your "no/low flow" issue is concerned, I once had a similar issue with a standard diptube. The issue turned out to be that I had pushed the poppet base (3-pronged base) too far into the post which caused the poppet spring to compress too much that resulted in needing more pressure to open the poppet than the disconnect provides. You can easily test the poppet pressure by depressing it with your thumb for a quick burst to see how much pressure is needed to get it open (put a towel over you hand so you don't spray the ceiling ). If you're familiar with the pressure required to activate the poppet then you'll know if that's the issue, and if you're not familiar with the needed pressure then test the gas side poppet as well since they should be very similar in needed pressure.

One other potential (because it's possible it's not an issue inside the keg at all) is the liquid serving line. Check and ensure that it's freely flowing.

 

[SanPancho]

is anybody using any sort of filter/screen the DIY setups? there's the dip tube screens from morebeer and AIH but not sure i want to cut one up to use it this way.

 

[mj1angier]

these are made for wine. Not sure if the ball would keep them afloat:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ISZSVXQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

these are made for wine. Not sure if the ball would keep them afloat:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01ISZSVXQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

The blog below are using these, but unfortunately not any feedback on how well it works. Looks like it should work though. Parts sourced through AliExpress and eBay will cost about $7 per floating dip tube with screen. Think I'm gonna give this design a shot.

http://think.gusius.com/diy-keg-floating-dip-tube

 

[Veets]

The blog below are using these, but unfortunately not any feedback on how well it works. Looks like it should work though. Parts sourced through AliExpress and eBay will cost about $7 per floating dip tube with screen. Think I'm gonna give this design a shot.

http://think.gusius.com/diy-keg-floating-dip-tube

You beat me to it. I've constructed these and they work. Not the exact same parts, but very close. I couldn't get my filter to wedge into the hole running through the float, to keep them connected. I ended up fitting a short piece of vinyl tubing over the silicone tubing at that joint, and now they stay connected. I also used a slightly heavier bolt, and had it extend out a bit away from the end filter, to better ensure that the pickup tube says below the liquid surface. In testing, I found that sometimes it didn't point completely down, so I did it that way as extra insurance. The last difference with the ones I made was that I just drilled a slightly smaller hole into the end of the filter and had the stainless screw kinda tap its own threads when screwing it in, for a tight fit. And I put the nut up by the end of the head of the screw (in other words, screwed on all the way). I couldn't figure out how to get a nut inside the filter, as shown in his picture, without ruining the filter.

I was a little skeptical that it would work , because I figured that the float should be on the other end, with the tubing and filter coming up through the liquid. But it works. In initial testing I filled up a keg of water, drained it, refilled it, drained it, shook it around a bit, etc. Every time I looked at it, the float was oriented properly, and the liquid flowed!

The most satisfying moment was when I used it on a keg that I fermented in. I did a closed-loop transfer to another keg for serving, and when I opened the fermenting keg I saw the float/filter sitting on a nice firm cake, with very little beer left behind.

SanPancho - did you ever figure out the problem with yours?

 

[Fictional]

Once the keg is clean, I'll dump in a pint or so of Star-san. I'll reseat the lid and swish around, inverting the keg, making sure all the surfaces are exposed to it. Then I'll open the lid and invert the keg and dump out the star-san.

I don't use a standard airlock on my fermenter--I use a stopper with a tube stuck in it--a bottle filling wand is perfect for that, just cut off about 3". From that I use some 5/16" silicone tubing, but any vinyl that fit would work as well. Usually I'd feed that into a jar w/ star-san, but now what I do is attach that 5/15" tubing to a black Liquid QD, and connect it to a keg. Release the PRV to allow the keg to vent, and all the gas produced in fermentation is purging the keg. There is enough CO2 produced to virtually clear the keg of air and oxygen. When fermentation ceases, I disconnect the tube from the keg, the undo the PRV so it seals again. Voila! Keg full of CO2, no bottled CO2 used to do it, and the CO2 is actually more pure than what comes from the bottle.

I just got a new conical, brewed with it Thursday for the first time. Here's how I captured the gases from the fermenter to feed the keg:

View attachment 566305

It's a little weird, but it works. Rather than an airlock--which I could use with a different configuration--I have a gas ball-lock on the gas manifold on the top of the conical. That is connected to a rather odd line--one end has the gas QD, the other has a black Liquid QD. I could connect that end directly to the keg, but in this case I connected it to the jumper line I used to rack the beer to the keg. I used one of these to connect the two black QDs together:

View attachment 566306
You can get these from brew hardware here: https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ball_lock_jumperpost.htm

FWIW: I also use these to daisy chain faucets when cleaning my keezer lines. This is a bit of thread drift but it's probably worth noting:

View attachment 566308

This is a rad set-up. Can you tell me if this is correct?

If I was planning to dry hop then I would need to throw the pellets in the *sanitized and cleaned* keg, purge a few times, then hook up my blow-off tube into keg, open PRV, and once fermentation is finished, disconnect from keg, then close transfer through floating dip tube? Did we decided that it's fine to do a transfer through the floating dip tube?

 

[mongoose33]

This is a rad set-up. Can you tell me if this is correct?

If I was planning to dry hop then I would need to throw the pellets in the *sanitized and cleaned* keg, purge a few times, then hook up my blow-off tube into keg, open PRV, and once fermentation is finished, disconnect from keg, then close transfer through floating dip tube? Did we decided that it's fine to do a transfer through the floating dip tube?

I haven't done a dry hop with this setup but what you describe is what I'm going to do when I do. I'd probably put the hops in a hop sock, add a couple of large stainless steel washers for weight, and tie it off. That way it stays at the bottom instead of interfering w/ the floating dip tube.

Or you could just toss them in loose and plan on the floating dip tube to keep clear of them until the very end. I might do that too.

 

[Veets]

This is a rad set-up. Can you tell me if this is correct?

If I was planning to dry hop then I would need to throw the pellets in the *sanitized and cleaned* keg, purge a few times, then hook up my blow-off tube into keg, open PRV, and once fermentation is finished, disconnect from keg, then close transfer through floating dip tube? Did we decided that it's fine to do a transfer through the floating dip tube?

You'd probably want to buy or make a spunding valve (pressure release valve) that you can use on the sanitized and cleaned keg, rather than just opening the PRV. In theory, if you're always having CO2 from the fermentation flowing through the keg and out the PRV you should be okay, but there's more opportunity for O2 to get in through the open PRV. The pressure release valve is essentially one-way (out). I'd like to see someone make a spunding setup to screw into the PRV hole, with a nice gauge and adjustment dial. After all, the PRV is just a seal that's biased to the hole with a spring that's designed to give way at about 120psi or so. Likewise, the variable-pressure release valve is the same idea, but with a lighter spring and the ability to manually adjust its tension to release at a desired pressure.

I've done transfers through floating dip tubes with screens. Both directions - from fermenter, and into a serving keg. Anything that gets past one screen is going to get past the other. But if you don't use a screen on your fermenter's floating dip tube, then I suppose it could be possible to pick up some trub or hop debris and clog up the dip tube on the receiving keg.

FYI, FWIW, I haven't tried dry hopping in the serving keg like that (yet), but it sounds pretty good in theory, and your procedure sounds right. Some people talk about (in theory) the CO2 flowing through that serving keg potentially carrying away the hop aroma compounds, but I think with pellet hops it would be minimal. I do wonder what would happen to them if they're sitting in a couple ounces of starsan water for a week or two. That's one of the reasons I haven't tried it yet - not willing to lose a batch of beer over it. I'm thinking about rigging up some sort of mechanism, maybe with magnets (stir bar magnet?), to hold some hop pellets in the inside of the lid of a corny keg until I want to release them. Like maybe hold them up there through primary fermentation and drop them in a few hours or day before transferring to a serving keg. Or hold them up in the serving keg until it's full, and then drop them in. The idea would be to avoid opening any of the vessels after they're O2-free, but to still be able to do a dry hop charge at a desired timing.

 

[Fictional]

You'd probably want to buy or make a spunding valve (pressure release valve) that you can use on the sanitized and cleaned keg, rather than just opening the PRV. In theory, if you're always having CO2 from the fermentation flowing through the keg and out the PRV you should be okay, but there's more opportunity for O2 to get in through the open PRV. The pressure release valve is essentially one-way (out). I'd like to see someone make a spunding setup to screw into the PRV hole, with a nice gauge and adjustment dial. After all, the PRV is just a seal that's biased to the hole with a spring that's designed to give way at about 120psi or so. Likewise, the variable-pressure release valve is the same idea, but with a lighter spring and the ability to manually adjust its tension to release at a desired pressure.

I've done transfers through floating dip tubes with screens. Both directions - from fermenter, and into a serving keg. Anything that gets past one screen is going to get past the other. But if you don't use a screen on your fermenter's floating dip tube, then I suppose it could be possible to pick up some trub or hop debris and clog up the dip tube on the receiving keg.

FYI, FWIW, I haven't tried dry hopping in the serving keg like that (yet), but it sounds pretty good in theory, and your procedure sounds right. Some people talk about (in theory) the CO2 flowing through that serving keg potentially carrying away the hop aroma compounds, but I think with pellet hops it would be minimal. I do wonder what would happen to them if they're sitting in a couple ounces of starsan water for a week or two. That's one of the reasons I haven't tried it yet - not willing to lose a batch of beer over it. I'm thinking about rigging up some sort of mechanism, maybe with magnets (stir bar magnet?), to hold some hop pellets in the inside of the lid of a corny keg until I want to release them. Like maybe hold them up there through primary fermentation and drop them in a few hours or day before transferring to a serving keg. Or hold them up in the serving keg until it's full, and then drop them in. The idea would be to avoid opening any of the vessels after they're O2-free, but to still be able to do a dry hop charge at a desired timing.

Very interesting. I Like that idea. Now I'm counting on you to figure out a way to do it and let me know! Haha. So you're saying that the method I mentioned has 2 potential pitfalls

1.) o2 coming in through the open PRV.

2.) Dry hop charge sitting in a little bit of residual star-san for a week or two.


Is that correct?

 

[mongoose33]

I think that with the rate that CO2 is coming off the fermenter, O2 is going to have a hard time swimming upstream. I actually have a newer way that I do this, shown in the pic below. I'm still using an airlock, just at the end. I like that because I can easily monitor fermentation and see when it slows. I've also got an airlock.

I use a Tilt as well, primarily so I can time the rise in temp for my accelerated lager schedule. But the bubbling certainly tells me when I'm close to done (as the Tilt does too).

 

[mongoose33]

Very interesting. I Like that idea. Now I'm counting on you to figure out a way to do it and let me know! Haha. So you're saying that the method I mentioned has 2 potential pitfalls

1.) o2 coming in through the open PRV.

2.) Dry hop charge sitting in a little bit of residual star-san for a week or two.

Is that correct?

I'd agree that if active fermentation has ceased, O2 will come in through the open PRV. In the previous post I show how I am dealing with that.

As far as the hop charge sitting in star-san....there is hardly any star san left in the keg when I invert it. You can even blow it out of there if you want--just pressurize the keg a bit, then put a QD and tube on the OUT post, and rock the keg to blow out any star-san that remains in the bottom of the keg. It works.

I hadn't thought about losing hop aroma/flavors as the CO2 washes over it and out the PRV. I'm sure some of it must be lost, but it's probably true that a lot isn't touched as it is pressed inside the hop pellets. Maybe adding an additional ounce of hop pellets would offset that.

 

[Fictional]

I'd agree that if active fermentation has ceased, O2 will come in through the open PRV. In the previous post I show how I am dealing with that.

As far as the hop charge sitting in star-san....there is hardly any star san left in the keg when I invert it. You can even blow it out of there if you want--just pressurize the keg a bit, then put a QD and tube on the OUT post, and rock the keg to blow out any star-san that remains in the bottom of the keg. It works.

I hadn't thought about losing hop aroma/flavors as the CO2 washes over it and out the PRV. I'm sure some of it must be lost, but it's probably true that a lot isn't touched as it is pressed inside the hop pellets. Maybe adding an additional ounce of hop pellets would offset that.

That sounds like a plan to me! Now, riddle me this:

1.) I planned on spunding to carbonate this batch. Do I add sugar (to carbonate) along with the dry hops and let that sit in the keg for 5-6 days before I transfer liquid into it so that it carbonates while it dry hops for the 2nd time? Or do I add sugar to serving keg? (Will there be enough yeast in suspension to eat it up?)

2.) when It comes time to transfer from my SS brew bucket into dry hopped keg this is what my set up would look like: a blow-off tube with a ball lock at the end that was being used to harvest co2. Now that tube I will have disconnected from the keg once fermentation slowed. So now it’s just dangling from the top doing nothing? So when I need to push liquid from BrewBucket into keg will gravity do this or will there be some kind of weird lack of equilibrium going on where the liquid won’t move unless I pop the lid open or push it with co2?


Sorry if that doesn’t make sense. It’s hard for me to explain It seems.

 

[mongoose33]

That sounds like a plan to me! Now, riddle me this:

1.) I planned on spunding to carbonate this batch. Do I add sugar (to carbonate) along with the dry hops and let that sit in the keg for 5-6 days before I transfer liquid into it so that it carbonates while it dry hops for the 2nd time? Or do I add sugar to serving keg? (Will there be enough yeast in suspension to eat it up?)

That's what I would do, if fermentation was complete. Otherwise, I'd transfer with about 6 points of gravity remaining, and let what's left of the wort sugar to feed the beast...I mean, yeast.

2.) when It comes time to transfer from my SS brew bucket into dry hopped keg this is what my set up would look like: a blow-off tube with a ball lock at the end that was being used to harvest co2. Now that tube I will have disconnected from the keg once fermentation slowed. So now it’s just dangling from the top doing nothing? So when I need to push liquid from BrewBucket into keg will gravity do this or will there be some kind of weird lack of equilibrium going on where the liquid won’t move unless I pop the lid open or push it with co2?

Sorry if that doesn’t make sense. It’s hard for me to explain It seems.

No, it makes sense. Here's what I'd do:

1. Make sure the keg is lower than the Brewbucket so you can use gravity. If not, you'll have to pressurize the Brewbucket.

2. Connect a tube from the spigot on the BrewBucket to a black quick disconnect. You can blow the air out of the tube w/ CO2 from your tank or, if there's any residual pressure in the keg, connect the QD to the keg, and let that purge the tubing of air.

3. Reconnect that line dangling from the top of the brew bucket to the Gas-In post. Now all you have to do is open the spigot, and beer will drain into the keg. The CO2 in the keg will be fed back into the top of the Brewbucket, so you're not drawing in air while you drain into the keg.

If you've done this right, your beer should be coming into contact with minimal oxygen.

Here's a pic that shows what I mean with my own setup; btw, the only way I could connect the tubing I had to the stopper in the lid was to cut off an airlock. It's not necessary, and more recently I've just used a piece of clear plastic tubing from a bottle filler.

 

[Veets]

Does anyone think that the floating dip tube could be modified to also function as a beer level indicator, like this?
https://www.ballandkeg.com/

I'm thinking some sort of plastic or teflon-coated magnet on the metal float, and trying to find some of those magnetic beads for the outside.

 

[StoutMatt]

Does anyone think that the floating dip tube could be modified to also function as a beer level indicator, like this?
https://www.ballandkeg.com/

I'm thinking some sort of plastic or teflon-coated magnet on the metal float, and trying to find some of those magnetic beads for the outside.

Seems like this thread is veering a little off-course, but that is an awesome idea. If the float were attached to a magnet in some manner, one could also use that to hold it in place with a strong external magnet. Then the float wouldn't bang around while flipping the keg to purge any excess sanitizer (assuming you still use the fill and purge method).

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

Attached are some photos of a few floating dip tubes I made this past weekend. Giving one a first try now. I only tested to see if it would float, but seems promising thus far.

 

[Spin711]

Attached are some photos of a few floating dip tubes I made this past weekend. Giving one a first try now. I only tested to see if it would float, but seems promising thus far.

How did the DIY floats go?

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

So far it appears to be working fine. Im using it in a keg that is being used both for fermentation and serving. It has included 3.75 oz of dry hops (mix of pellets and leaf). Right now it is cold crashing, and I have pulled off a pint with no trouble. So the dry hops aren't clogging the filter or getting through.

The beer is more hazy than expected though, but hopefully that improves over the next week or so. If it doesn't I may transfer to another keg including a floating dip tube.

 

[LittlejohnBrew]

So far it appears to be working fine. Im using it in a keg that is being used both for fermentation and serving. It has included 3.75 oz of dry hops (mix of pellets and leaf). Right now it is cold crashing, and I have pulled off a pint with no trouble. So the dry hops aren't clogging the filter or getting through.

The beer is more hazy than expected though, but hopefully that improves over the next week or so. If it doesn't I may transfer to another keg including a floating dip tube.

Well disaster struck last night. Due to the haze and harsh flavor I decided to transfer to another keg with gelatin.

At first transfer went well, but about 3 gals in I was pulling nothing but foam. Opened the keg to find the floating dip tube clogged. Tried cleaning it and transfering again, but it continued to clog. Ultimately I gave up and lost out on about 1.5 gal of beer.

The floating dip tube was sitting in the loose hops the entire time which I think was causing the harsh flavors. Then eventually it sucked up hops onto the screen. In the future i will use either pellets only with the hope that they sink or continue to use of bags for the hops.

 

[lablover]

Does anyone think that the floating dip tube could be modified to also function as a beer level indicator, like this?
https://www.ballandkeg.com/

I'm thinking some sort of plastic or teflon-coated magnet on the metal float, and trying to find some of those magnetic beads for the outside.

Interesting idea. Maybe you could buy one of the ballandkeg float kits and strap the silicone tubing to the float with a couple nylon zip ties. Since their float already includes the magnet, you'd only have to add the silicone tubing. I might try that because I'd love to have keg level indication as well as clear beer.