Dark grain/vorlauf question

I'm planning to brew a recipe this weekend that calls for dark grain additions during the vorlauf rather than during the mash. I usually do a full volume mash and then raise the temperature to 168 for a mash out. Would it make sense to add these dark grains rights as I begin heating up to 168?

Thanks.

 

Dark grains at the end of the mash is an old weird homebrew community wisdom thing that just won't die. Just mash with them, it'll be fine.

 

My last dark lager i added my Carafa III in the last 10 min of the mash before I pulled my basket and the beer turned out a little lighter colored than previous beers. Still waiting to taste it to see if it makes a difference.

 

Thanks. I've done it the other way lots of times, but figures I would give it a shot based on Strong's recent book.

 

I'm reading that book now as well and he advocates holding off on any grains that don't require mashing until the end, so most notably crystal/roast.

I'm curious to try this too. Just trying to figure out the pH implications. If you get your base mash in the correct range then add crystal/roast grains for the last 20 - 30 minutes (I BIAB so no sparge or vorlauf time) will they end up driving the kettle pH too low?

 

Thanks Yooper.

Would the same thing be true using a traditional system with mash-out, vorlauf and sparge? If so, I wonder how Gordon manages his pH? I think he does his additions during vorlauf/sparge.

 

I did a light vanilla porter with late dark grain additions. The main purpose was to mellow out the roastiness of the dark grains (roasted barley, black patent, C80). I added them for the last 15 min of the mash along with some lime to balance the pH. The color ended up fine but initially the finished beer tasted a little watery. After a few more weeks, though, the flavors melded well and it was better. It mellowed the roastiness a little more than I wanted. I'll probably do 30 min next time. For pH adjustment, I entered everything into Bru'nWater as if it were all being mashed at once. This gave me the quantity if lime, which I then added with the dark grains. I monitored pH for the entire mash and it was fine.

 

So I brewed Strong's Modern London Porter today, using the balanced brown water profile from Bru'nwater. I mashed the Maris Otter, Munich and Brown malts for 60 min at 153, added the Crystal and Chocolate malts, and ramped up to 168 for a 10 min hold.

pH's were 5.1/5.2 at 0 min, 5.3/5.4 at 55 min, and 5.2/5.3 after adding the dark malts.

 

Do you recommend adding everything into Bru'nWater as if it were all being mashed at once or just adding the base malts? I am still little confuse about ph when adding dark malts at vourlauf as Gordon Strong suggests.

 

I've gone back to tossing it all in at once.

 

I also keep them in the entire mash. Most of my darker beers I want pitch-black anyway (big stouts and imperial browns, etc) but I always though that you don't add them because of an added bitterness/roastiness. If that is the case, adjust the IBUs or use smaller amounts

Also, I'm not an over-the-top scientific brewer, but I do like to keep my mash within a certain ph range, and its just easier to add them at the start when I'm making recipes and predicting the ph.