corny keg as single stage fermenter

With conicals you can use it as a single stage fermenter by draining the trub off the bottom.

Can you do the same thing with a keg? They are fairly narrow. with a rounded bottom. only difference is you are pulling the trub up thru the out line rather than thru the bottom?

 

you could cut a diptube and move the beer off the trub.
I've been pondering fermenting 11/12 gallon batches in 3 corneys. airloc in the bev out till transfer time and then assemble with my one cut tube for all three.

 

Cutting the dip tube is probably the smarter move. Otherwise the trub could potentially clog the diptube and really muck up the poppet valves - strikes me as messy.

 

As i read more it started sounding like a bad idea. too much junk in the bottom.

 

YOur beer may not be as clear with a single stage fermentation.

 

I've been doing a lot of reading on this, and am probably going to switch to fermenting all my batches in Corny kegs.

I've yet to do it, but I don't think it will be bad to fit 5 gallons if I use Fermcap. Also, a screen on the diptube will keep any big particles from clogging it up. I don't think I would worry about "pulling" the yeast from the beer. Rather, I'd bend the diptube a little to avoid the trub pile. I would rack to a clean keg, fine with gelatin and proceed as normal.

Thats my plan at least.

 

If you are going to ferment in a corny I recommend making making a hose for liquid to liquid to transfer and rack too clear before carbonating. the idea is something like this:

-Corny (A) is fermented, hook up the co2 to the gas in. Connect special hose from corny (A) liquid out to corny (B) liquid in

-With the lid off corny (B) turn the gas on for corny (A) to a few psi and let it transfer.

-As soon as can see sediment or air in the transfer line take the disconnect off of corny (B).

 

I have fermented my last - lemme go count - 14 batches in unmodified cornies. All my dip tubes are factory, but I use the ones with a straight tube and the wee flat space on a radius for primaries.

FWIW I think of the straight beer out tube kegs as my primaries, the ones with the curved tube and golf ball sized dimple smack in the middle of the bottom as serving kegs. To tell them apart, pick it up and look at the bottom from the outside. If there is one round dimple in the middle it is a curved tube serving keg in my world. If there is a flat part reaching from the center to the edge, it is a straight tube primary. You should notice that the flat part of the bottom points straight at the same point on the circumfrence occupied by the black (out) post.

I transfer (rack) exactly as described by Danaldor above. My transfer hose is about 8" long, black post to black post.

I have, so far, one batch that plugged up the works. For that one I had to open the lid and siphon the usual way.

Whenever possible I use whole hops and run the hot wort through the same BIAG mesh sack I use for lauter and sparge. When I have to use pellets I use twice enough Irish moss, whirl like mad, wait at least 25 minutes and siphon carefully.

With 5 gallon ales I have got to keep the fermenter in a water bath and keep the max temp under 70°F max, 65°F max is better. Hotter than that and I have yeast all over the room. Some pics of same in my gallery.

With wheat yeasts I just pitch on four gallons.

I am "never" going back to plastic buckets and I hope I "never" own another glass carboy.

Yeast harvesting is a snap. Just open the lid, pour in a gallon of clean water, replace the lid. Grasp by the handles and shake. Hook up the gas. Hook up a sanitized tap. Squirt yeast slurry into first (sanitized) settling jug as illustrated in the sticky.

I also bottle from kegs now. When I decide to bottle a batch I just boil up whatever for priming sugar and dump into an empty serving keg, then rack the beer onto it from whatever keg it is in.

I suppose I could make up a special bottling tap, but I have been just using my standard 10' of 3/16" with a black post at one end and a picnic tap at the other. Insert clean racking cane into opening of cobra tap. Line up bottles on counter. Hook up CO2 to grey post on primed flat keg. Fill bottles.

I think of the cold side as all my brewing equipment that touches cooled wort or actual beer and therefore needs to be sanitized, not just clean. The hot side gear should be clean, but if it isn't sanitized I am going to boil the wort anyway.

I will say the last three kegs to join my herd have longer gas in tubes than I have ever seen before. Those I might cut down a little bit, but they are all three of the curved tube/ serving type, so I don't really have to. As primaries the grey tube would be cutting into my head space.

Advantages to all cornelius cold side:

1. No glass carboys to break.
2. No delicate plastic surfaces to scratch and consequently harbor bacteria.
3. No UV worries.
4. Very tolerant to temperature.
5. Convenient carry handles.
6. Interchangeable vessels/ streamlined process. I can ferment, age, bottle and serve from all the same containers.
7. Not finicky to sanitize, I can use whatever product I want.
8. Dented cornies can be hammered back out with a rubber mallet.
9. Can be stored sanitized and pressed with a little CO2 more or less indefinitely, thus I can brew anytime without having to check if the primary is clean.
10. All one container type. I usually wait until I have three or four (used, rinsed) backed up before I bother breaking out the OxyClean.
11. Since I can harvest yeast out of cornies I am somewhat less interested even in conicals.
12. Can tolerate spunding valves/ pressurized primary ferments.
13. Carboy brush is quaint reminder of bygone era.
14. Cornies tolerate sharpie marker labels directly on bare steel, cleans up easily with hot water, OxyClean, green scrubber. Just to the side of the black post in case of drips...

Disadvantages:

1. More expensive than buckets, more expensive than carboys. Cheaper than conicals though ;-)
2. O-rings are less durable than glass.
3. Several parts to keep track of, organizational skills required.
4. Multiple surfaces means cornies are less forgiving of marginal sanitation pratices.
5.



EDIT: A couple recurring themes in my PM box.

1. Should I cut my diptube to use a corny as a primary? The real answer is I don't know. I like to leave enough room in the bottom of my fermenters to leave behind about a quart of yeast. From there I can go to the yeast washing sticky and save a few bucks on the next batch. My current herd is 8 cornelius kegs, and just when I think I have seen it all I find something new.

In general the straight dip tube cornies are perfect, but I only have three of them. One of the last three kegs I bought had a curved tube that was too long by over an inch, the last inch of the dip tube had to be forced into the keg before the threads on the post could mate with the threads on the keg. Yes I cut that tube down some and yes the Oring under there was toast.

2. What batch size can I ferment in a five gallon corny? It depends on your yeast strain, and it depends on how well you control your fermentation temperature.

With wheat yeasts I do four gallon batches. Those are in general agresive foamy yeasts and they need some head space.

With Brit and USA ale yasts, and temp controlled to 70°F or less I am perfectly comfortable filling the vessel to the weld line at the top where the vertical sides meet the curved roof. A few example pics in my gallery.

 

That was a pretty good description! Got me thinking about ways I can start using my kegs!

 

Great write up Poindexter! That might help me make the leap sooner than I thought.

One thing I'd like to add. With the price of glass carboys going up, you can usually find cornies for the same price, if not cheaper.

 

Minor nit, but I don't agree with this point-- I picked up a dozen cornies for about $20 each. The last I looked, this is cheaper than a Better Bottle, and a lot cheaper than a glass carboy.

Of course, add in the two bucks or so for the o-ring replacements and it gets a little closer, but cost should not be a reason to forgo corny fermentation.

 

Cost is a market thing to be sure. I have purchased (in big cities) used cornies holding pressure for $25 cash and carry. Here in interior Alaska I get special order, wait for the truck, 33% holding pressure for $36 each.

I have a big enough herd that I just stock all the Orings now.

Over the course of many years the cost of Orings will _eventually_ make the thing more expensive than a better bottle. But how many T shirts are going to end up at the dump in that same number of years, and how many batches are going to get skunked because the wet Tshirt slipped down the bottle while you were at work?

 

15. Can carb up a batch in a fermenter type keg and then counterpressure transfer to a serving type keg later. Try that with a glass carboy.

 

I should get a word inhere about my spunding valve.

I was pretty excited about the idea of running my fermentations under pressure anyway, from reading wortmonger's thread.

Once I realized I could use the same valve (about $100 in parts, McMaaster-Carr and Lowe's) to transfer under pressure from keg to keg, well, I had to have one.

This thing lets me carb a whole keg on sugar in the fullness of time, and then I can rack - under pressure, without losing carbonation - from the keg with the small cake at the bottom to a clean keg that is now ready to travel and arrive with beer that is not cloudy.

It is a key piece in the flexibility of the system.

I do want to add two pieces to my keg management tool box.

1. I would like to have a grey post with just a pressure gauge on it so I can just go measure.

2. Once my system is dialed in I would like to setup a grey post with a fixed pressure relief valve on it, probably around five psi, maybe ten. Maybe eight psi.

I'll run my ferments with the item two, about five points short of FG I'll just remove the fool thing and let the beer carb up and clean up the diacetyl. This will free my adjustable valve (item zero, already in stock) for couterpressure transfer duties.

 

This is the first thread by wortmonger I read that gotme thinking about using a cornie as a primary.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/closed-system-pressurized-fermentation-technique-44344/

This is a different one I opened to get people stirring each other's wort, some pics:

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f13/cold-component-keg-creativity-50550/

 

Sorry, I know this is a bit off-topic, but...

I stumbled across a 2006 invoice from my LHBS wherein they sold me 5-gallon carboys for ~$15. Now they're $30+. What's up with that?

 

I'm intrigued by the idea of fermenting in cornies now. My only issue is like most the head space since I don't use whirlfloc. How do you set up a blow-off/airlock in a corny? remove co2 post and insert a size 2 drilled bung?


Not to turn this into a carboy complaint thread, but I had to pay 50$ each for 6.5g ones.

I got 6 kegs holding pressure for 100$ (16.6$ each) while visiting family out of state. Payed 26$ for 200 post rings, 200 dip tube rings and 10 lid rings (lid rings are where it hurts) from McMaster.

 

Production in Mexico has ceased, from what I remember reading several months ago.

 

Glass is heavy. When gas prices went up, shipping prices went up both from the manufacture to the wholesaler (increasing the wholesale price) and from the wholesaler to the retailer (the retailer may have adsorbed some of this). When gas prices went down the wholesalers did not correspondingly lower their prices.

 

Where did you get them?

 

If you can find them 10 gallon cornies work awesome for brewing 5 gallon batches and I suspect bigger batches as well.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/cornelius-fermenter-transfer-75850/

I do make cider in my 5 gallon cornies but simply fill with only 4.5 gallons.

 

Any links? I'm interested in trying three gallon batches with only a single vessel from pitching to serving by drawing the trub out in this fashion...

 

I'm still pretty new but I have gone to primary in a plastic bucket for 4 weeks, then rack to a keg and pressurize and condition. This just seems easier to me, to syphon into the keg. I was planning on having 2-3 extra kegs to condition while drinking my other 2 kegs on tap.