Copper conical?

anyone besides this guy make their conical out of copper like this one?

http://hbd.org/brewniversity/engineering/conical/

i haven't checked copper prices, so it might not be cheaper than buying a TMS 12.2 cone from AHS for $160. AHS must have bought in quantity from TMS since that is a really good price.

if copper is cheap enough to beat the SS price is there any reason why it wouldn't work well as SS or plastic?

 

I've seen copper kettles, but that's the first copper fermenter. I'd be concerned about smoothing the seams enough to prevent hiddie holes for bacteria. At least with stainless, you can blast them with caustic soda. And copper isn't cheap these days.

 

i reckon you are right about the seams and bacteria and probably the price, although SS is pretty pricey too. i wonder what those big copper tuns are in the sam adams beer commercial? mash tuns maybe?

not sure if this is a fementer or a mash tun in this old abandoned Stella Artois brewery. looks like a fortune in copper.

 

Pretty much have to solder copper, pain in the rump, and then there's the constant patina...copper used to be cheap, easy to work and stainless was just not at all common or affordable.

Things obviously change....sometimes for the better.....
http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff82/MaynardHill/Brewing/?action=view&current=April1107002a.jpg

 

HH, is that the Celis brewery in Michigan? what are we looking at there in that photo?

 

Probably mash tuns. Copper mash tuns are very posh. As are copper kettles. Dave Wills at Oregon Trails has a walk-in copper kettle. (actually you use a ladder.)

 

Is that tree going into it or is it just Christmas time?

 

That is what came with purchase of Celis by Michigan Brewing Company. They use their normal 30 barrel Century brewhouse and SS fermenters and bright tanks, but the stuff runs from the foreground to the far wall-stacked. Lotsa room there for storage and other musings....they just started growing their own lettuce for salads in the pub about where the gas cylinders are in the pic.....

He won't sell anything....
More pics:

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff82/MaynardHill/Brewing/?action=view&current=April1107008a.jpg

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff82/MaynardHill/Brewing/?action=view&current=April1107009a.jpg

http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/ff82/MaynardHill/Brewing/?action=view&current=April1107007a.jpg

 

I remember when Pierre had all of his stuff in Austin Texas. It sure was a stunning little brewery. I heard all kinds of rumours why he closed and sold off but those of us in Austin who lost that jewel have been suffering ever since.

 

How close is the beer to what you remember?

 

The only Celis beer we can get down in Texas from Michigan is the Celis White. The distributor can likely get others but I haven't seen it in our specialty shops.

How close it is to what we used to get is a tough question but I think there was more coriander aroma and flavour in the Celis White brewed in Austin. I'd like it if his daughter would come back and open up another brewery here in Austin but this time partner with a different distributor or self-distribute.

 

I wonder how much of a problem the seams would be since copper is a naturally antimicrobial

 

there is another way of bonding the cone besides soldering.

check this out!







John

 

Someone can correct me if I'm remembering this wrong, but if your solder and copper are both coming into contact with the beer in the fermenter, wouldn't you get a battery effect? Corrosion of both the copper and the solder and ions leaching into your beer?

 

i don't know, but the plumbing in most modern homes (since the 70s at least) is soldered copper. that's hot and cold water piping both. only difference is that wort might be a bit more acidic than most drinking water.

 

what'll they think of next? that's friggin amazing. and weird.

 

copper and brass are naturally antimicrobial. brass doorknobs will cleanse themselves of microbes in 7 or 8 hours after contamination. but in an ocean of yeast and bacteria food (wort) would it be sufficiently antimicrobial?

i don't know. but i found this article interesting.
http://www.copper.org/health/papers/doorknob.html

 

soldering is relatively dirty and weak compared to brazing with a high silver content braze. also, Brass and copper can be easily connected very solidly!! with the same braze. Unfortunately, propane doesn't burn at a high enough temp. You need at least MAP gas or acetylene/oxygen. The result is nearly as strong as welding steel. And WAY easy to do.

 

given the price of copper, it doesn't make sense to do it.

16 gauge copper sheet is $620 at mcmaster carr for a 8 foot by 36 inch sheet. you wouldn't need all of that. you could make the 15 gallon conical in the article with a 7 foot by 32 inch sheet but it'll still be approaching $600 for the copper before you buy dump valve and racking port, brazing rods, mapp torch and gas, and material to make a stand.

it would definitely look cool, but it sure wouldn't be cost effective.

 

Makes stainless the best all around choice. Buying the spun conical hopper and lid and having them welded, is really the way to go.

http://www.toledometalspinning.com/products/hoppers/

http://www.toledometalspinning.com/products/lids/

Look at the savings in polish....

 

Rarely a week goes by where a "Thieves steal plumbing and wiring from <insert school, daycare, business here>" article doesn't make our local paper or news. Copper is so f'in expensive I about #%@$ myself last time I had to by a roll of romex. I couldn't imagine using it for anything these days where an alternative exists.

 

That's a good point. I was remembering an example that was something like not using aluminum and steel nails together, or vice versa. Not sure if it applies the same way with the copper and solder.

 

What about copper poisoning? Is this an issue with the acidic wort/beer?

~M~