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breaker and estop

Discussion in 'Electric Brewing' started by gr3, Nov 19, 2015.

 

  1. #1
    gr3

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    How do you wire this to manually kick with estop switch.

    gfi.jpg
     
  2. #2
    bayoujeeper

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    I could be wrong but I believe you would have to manually switch this off. You could use a E-stop with a contractor to cut main power if that is what you are trying to accomplish.
     
  3. #3
    gr3

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    I'm wanting to use this on 220v I might have to use a 3 pole. But since it has a test switch I would think I could wire it to kick maybe.
     
  4. #4
    BrunDog

    Sponsor  

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    This looks like a combo breaker/contactor, which is cool. If that is correct, you would wire an E-Stop (with a normally closed contact) to power and one of the the input terminals. The other input terminal to neutral or the other leg if 220V.

    Unless this is a GFI breaker, in which case the extra terminals are neutral in/out. I can't see the schematic and don't read Chinese.

    -BD
     
  5. #5
    gr3

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    They are ELCB Earth Leakage Circuit Breaker which I assume is a gfi.
     
  6. #6
    BrunDog

    Sponsor  

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    Then the two extra terminals are neutrals. Anyway, per your original post, you do NOT want to purposely trip a GFI breaker as a safety. I know there are many schematics on this forum showing this being done with online resistors. But it is bad practice. Use contactors to inhibit power as bayoujeeper said.

    -BD
     
  7. #7
    Brumateur

    Supporting Member  

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    This is a single phase GFCI breaker.
    You can use this breaker in your pannel only if you have no 120v consumers. Otherwise it will trip as soon as you energize any 120V device.
    If you need a 120v somewhere at your pannel you need a braker with dedicated terminals for neutral. Usually it 3phases breakers. Since you have only 2 phases one set of terminal will be unused.
     
    ryanhope likes this.
  8. #8
    gr3

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    Ok if I use a 3phases breakers with dedicated neutral can I trip that with external switch?
    Thanks
     
  9. #9
    Brumateur

    Supporting Member  

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    Yes you can. Just the same way as on PJ diagrams. Wire 1watt resistor in 1K-3K range trough E-Stop between any one live wire (after GFCT) and a ground.
     
  10. #10
    gr3

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    So using a contactor is better. I have had contactors melt and stick before. So which way is better? So if I use 3phases breakers with dedicated neutral can I use a 110v leg and not trip on 110v device?
     
  11. #11
    BrunDog

    Sponsor  

    Posted Nov 19, 2015

    This is poor practice and should not be done. Breakers should not be purposely faulted as a means for safety.

    -BD
     
  12. #12
    BrunDog

    Sponsor  

    Posted Nov 19, 2015

    You might want to make sure the contactor is appropriately sized and of decent quality. This should not happen as they have low resistance but can only handle so much disconnect current. The device you originally quoted does not fall into the "high quality" bucket.

    -BD
     
  13. #13
    gr3

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    Okay contactor it is.
    Thanks
     
  14. #14
    Brumateur

    Supporting Member  

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    Yes 3 phase GFCI will not trip on 120V consumers.
     
  15. #15
    BrunDog

    Sponsor  

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    I don't think you are accurately defining electrical phases.
     
  16. #16
    Brumateur

    Supporting Member  

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    Could you explain?
     
  17. #17
    BrunDog

    Sponsor  

    Posted Nov 19, 2015
    Household power is always single phase.
     
  18. #18
    Brumateur

    Supporting Member  

    Posted Nov 20, 2015
    Are you talking about Europeans housholds?
    Almost all US and Canadian housholds have two phases coming in. Its two 120 phases shifted 180 gegree to rach other.
     
  19. #19
    BrunDog

    Sponsor  

    Posted Nov 20, 2015
    Still not correct. US uses a split phase system for household power. Yes, this is a technical nit, but still accurate.
     
    itsnotrequired likes this.
  20. #20
    Brumateur

    Supporting Member  

    Posted Nov 20, 2015
    You can call it "split phase system" if you wish but it means you have 2 phases in your houshold.
     
  21. #21
    mattd2

    Well-Known Member

    Posted Nov 20, 2015
    Pretty sure you are still using only 1 phase from the power distribution network - which is then centre tapped at the step-down transformer to give the 120V between phase and neutral (the centre of the tap).
    More explanation here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Split-phase_electric_power

    What you really mean is there is 2 halves of a single phase which are 180° out of phase coming into each house
     
    BrunDog likes this.
  22. #22
    Brumateur

    Supporting Member  

    Posted Nov 20, 2015
    I know how how it made and how it works. But it still 2 phase system. Yes it's a special case since one phase can be split by two using a transformer only when resulting phases shifted by 180 degree. One phase required only 2 wires to carry it. Usually its live and neutral . All house holds here has 3 incoming wires. Two hots and neutral.

    =============
    In electronic signaling, phase is a definition of the position of a point in time (instant) on a waveform cycle. A complete cycle is defined as 360 degrees of phase as shown in Illustration A below. Phase can also be an expression of relative displacement between or among waves having the same frequency .

    Phase difference , also called phase angle , in degrees is conventionally defined as a number greater than -180, and less than or equal to +180. Leading phase refers to a wave that occurs "ahead" of another wave of the same frequency. Lagging phase refers to a wave that occurs "behind" another wave of the same frequency. When two signals differ in phase by -90 or +90 degrees, they are said to be in phase quadrature . When two waves differ in phase by 180 degrees (-180 is technically the same as +180), the waves are said to be in phase opposition .
     
  23. #23
    itsnotrequired

    Supporting Member  

    Posted Nov 20, 2015
    by definition, a multi-phase electrical system defines a unique rotational direction of the magnetic field. since the voltages in a split-phase system are exactly 180 degrees apart, it is not possible to determine if one phase is leading the other. thus it cannot be considered a two-phase system in the strictest sense of the terms.

    it really is a fine point and when folks talk about two-phase systems in a home, everyone is on the same page. the math works out either way.
     
  24. #24
    Brumateur

    Supporting Member  

    Posted Nov 20, 2015
    In any case, if you going to use GFCI for only 120V or only 240v you need 2 terminals GFCI device. if you need 120v and 240v at the same time you`ll need 3 terminals gfci.
     
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