Breaker always tripping

I'm building a e-Herms and when I plug my pannel, it always trips. I tried to unplug everything from the blocks inside the pannel. So the breaker is working fine. As soon I a plug back a single PID or a "120v to 12v transformer", the breaker is tripping.

I started using P-J's wiring diagram that I adapted to my equipment. I'm using my 50A GFCI spa breaker pannel. I put an RV 50a plug after that pannel, so I can unplug my spa and plug my e-Herms. My spa is working fine, so I'm sure the problem is in my herms pannel.

I also tried to plug a 120v wire to the line 1 and neutral before plugging it into the spa pannel and everything was working fine!!

Here is my mod of P-J's wiring diagram:

 

I had a similar thing happen to me. After triple and quadruple checking my wires and connections, I realized I had a short that was throwing the breaker. I bet you do too, based on what you are describing.

 

If you disconnect the wires from the terminal blocks one at a time you can find out which wire is causing the breaker to trip and then trace that to the problem. Also, post a pic of the inside of your panel and someone might be able to see the error.

 

I did that, but everytime I try to connect something using only 120v, the breaker trips. I think I will look inside the spa gfci box. I know it's a 4 wires install in and out. I will post the inside of that box tomorow.

Here are 2 pictures of the inside, but almost everything is disconnected from the distribution block since I tried the steps above.

 

Did you run all the neutrals back to the breaker? If not, the breaker will trip right away. If your tripping right away while trying to use 120V, I'd guess you one or more neutrals not going back through the breaker...

 

I think every neutral are back to the breaker, but I'm not sure to understand you.

I'm posting pics of inside my electric pannel and my spa pannel so it will be more clear.

 

Can't quite tell from the spa panel photo but the circuit neutral must be attached to the GFCI breaker, NOT the neutral buss bar. The gfci neutral pigtail must carry all the neutral current to the neutral buss bar.

 

I totally agree.

Your SPA panel neutral connecton for the load is not wired to the break output. What make/model # is your spa panel. I'm not familiar with it and it appears to be only a 240V output unit. (Unless there is another neutral terminal on the braker.)

 

It's a square d model# CQOE250GFINM from Home Depot (in Canada). Here's the Home Depot Page .
I dug a bit and found that the is a QO250GFI in a non metallic case. So here is the QO250GFI data sheet.

There's no more place for a neutral connection on the breaker. Do you think that's why I can't put 120v in my pannel?

 

That particular GFCI breaker does not have a neutral output even though they say it is 120/240V.

This is the one available in the US:
GE 50A 240V Spa Panel GFCI
This one does have a neutral output.

Perhaps you might be able to order it and have it shipped to you?

 

Whoa!! 65$ Here, they are over 200$ I think I will buy one in the united states later (I have a US address with reship.com ). Meanwhile, I will simply put another cable to bring 120v in my control pannel and plug the elements on that gfci. I have another 120v outlet next to that pannel. I will just inform if the midwest pannel is legal here in Canada, but why not?!? Thanks P-J

 

Are you sure about this? If it's rated for 120/240 then there surely should be a neutral lug on that breaker. I found a QO250GFI image online that shows a neutral lug below where you have the black wire connected. Pull that wire loose and look closely underneath for a neutral lug near the bottom, aligned with where the neutral pigtail exits the housing. If you find it, this is where the neutral from the circuit should be terminated.

 

I will try to find it... I brought a different wire for the 120v yesterday and everything was working (tried to boil water). If the weather is good, I will try to brew a batch this afternoon. I will try to check for this neutral lug later this week.

 

I did some research and found nothing on that model. Do you have the original packaging or documentation? It may show things that aren't readily apparent to the naked eye.

 

Here is a link I found for the QO250GFI with photos. The photo on the right, when selected and mouse-over zoomed, shows a neutral lug towards the bottom right.

 

Nice catch.

 

I don't have the packaging anymore, so you think that the little screw next to le pigtail is for neutral? Is it safe to try? I guess that if it's not for neutral, the other breaker will trip anyway...

I put a second wire to bring the 120v for now, but I will try that little screw for sure!!

Thanks raouliii :rockin:

 

It certianly looks that way. In fact, if you look at the 3rd picture in the link provided and mouse over, it clearly has an "N" and an arrow pointing to that hole. I'd wager to guess your breaker has the same lettering on the side telling you the same thing and you just missed it... assuming it's the same breaker and all.

So yes - that lower right port is for your LOAD neutral. Connect it and get rid of your other 120v line and use the panel as you designed it.

-Kevin

 

You are better detectives than me!!. I wrote to SqareD and you are all right. Here is the answer:
"These is a neutral lug on the breaker right below where you have your black wire going out to your load. The breaker is 120-V compliant as long as the neutral for the 120 Vac load is connected to the neutral terminal on the breaker and the pigtail is connected to the neutral bar in the panel. Which from the picture it looks like you have the pigtail connected to your neutral bar. Now just connect the neutral from the load to the neutral lug on the breaker instead of on the neutral bar like you have in the picture.

Hope this helps and let me know if I can further assist."

Thanks everybody for helping, I couldn't find that myself.