Bells Oberon Clone

Batch size is 5 gallons, boiling volume is about 5.75 gallons to allow for some evaporation. And I was mistaken about the IBUs being 23, it is actually closer to 27. According to Bell's, Oberon has 23 IBUs, but I did a slight miscalculation when converting from my extract recipe to all-grain. I didn't cut down the hop additions enough due to the larger boil volume. To keep the IBUs down to 23, you should cut down the 60 min. hops from 1 oz. to about 3/4 oz. Sorry about the mix-up, I have been in the process of updating all my recipes now that I have switched to mostly all-grain brewing.

 

If it close to the real thing?

 

My extract recipe that this is based on was very close to the flavor and aroma of Oberon, the color was a little darker. I recently brewed this AG recipe for the first time, so it won't be ready for a week or two. But the sample I took tasted about the same, and the color was a little closer to Oberon than the extract version was. The real key is the Cascade dry hopping, since the aroma is a big part of Oberon(do at least 1 week, but 2 is better). And it will never be an exact clone unless you culture yeast from Bell's bottles. But I honestly think that I like the version I made with White Labs American hefeweizen better, even though it was not quite as much like Oberon. It is still a really tasty wheat beer with a lot of great citrusy hop aroma. I have a theory that I may have to test soon - I think that you could brew a lot of different basic wheat beer recipes, and as long as you use Hallertau for bittering, Saaz for aroma, and dry hop with Cascade, you will probably end up with a beer with most of the characteristics of Oberon. Maybe I'll try Jamil's American wheat beer recipe from "Brewing Classic Styles" but with the hops from my Oberon recipe.

 

It was my understanding that Bell's uses a neutral strain for bottle conditioning other than the primary fermenting strain. Correct me if I'm wrong...

Therefore, if this is true, culturing yeast from Bell's bottles wouldn't get you any closer to cloning the beer inside.

Anyone?

TB

 

I was told by a very reliable source that they do use the same yeast as the primary fermentation to bottle condition. This was a couple years ago, though. So it is entirely possible that they changed.

 

I guess until there's proof that they don't use a neutral strain to bottle condition, I wouldn't put forth the effort to culture the yeast from a Bell's bottle. I hope I'm wrong, but I have heard that they did go that route.

I did hear about that threat to sue from Bell's. The kit was called "Three Hearted Ale" and the lawyers at Bell's didn't think too kindly of it. I'm not so sure that they genuinely felt threatened by the recipe, but it was probably along the lines of "your name is too close to ours" or something like that.

I had pretty good success with my Oberon-ish recipes using the Chico strain, American wheat, and the East Coast Ale strains. I'm sure non are the actual strain used by Bell's, but I liked my version much much better. As did the members of the homebrew club I'm a member of. I guess that's what it's all about, right?

TB

 

My thoughts exactly. I don't really try too hard to precisely "clone" beers anymore. I would rather just use a beer I like as inspiration and make something similar. It is fun to try to tweak a clone recipe to make it more to my specific tastes, rather than being obsessed about things like getting the color exactly the same. No beer is perfect - even beers I really like usually have some subtle changes I would want to make when I brew them.

 

That just about sums it up.

TB

 

They sent a cease and desist letter, they never threatened to sue, big difference. They basically sent a hard copy version of phone call asking them to change the name.

Having said that, I recently cultured the yeast from their pale ale and made a two hearted clone, it is almost spot on. I have a different IPA fermenting with the strain right now as well. Even if it is a different strain, its good stuff from the one batch I have done with it.

 

Agreed. Whatever yeast it is in the bottles, it works well. And I'm no lawyer, but my understanding is that sending a cease and desist letter is basically saying "knock it off or we will sue you". It certainly is not saying "please do us a favor and stop it, but if you don't that's OK too". If suing has nothing to do with it, then why are such letters sent by attorneys? Not looking to start an argument, though. I know there are 2 very divided camps on this one.

 

OK. fair enough. Sounds the same to us non-law savvy, but I acknowledge the difference now.

That's promising. Is there any documented proof that the bottle conditioning strain is the same as the primary fermentation? Glad your clones are going well; that gives hope that they might not use a different strain for conditioning.

TB

 

I am going to ask a friend of mine who works at the brewery to see if he can find out the answer to this for sure. I will probably be seeing him within the next few days. If I remember correctly, their house strain is a mutated version of Cal Ale V. I'll see what he can find out.

 

I'll be interested in what you find, Adam. Thanks for checking.

 

I had it confirmed by their Wisconsin rep that they only use the one yeast for fermenting and bottling.

 

Thanks for the good news!

 

And I am simply reiterating that I used bottle yeast to brew my clone last year... I would say it is the same yeast based on my results, but they could always have changed it for this year, I suppose.

 

I was at Bell's yesterday and talked for a while with one of the head brewers. He told me that they never have used a different strain for bottle conditioning any of their beers. It is always done with the same yeast that the primary fermentation uses.

 

Sounds good to me - I guess we can put this one to rest. Thanks for finding the info.

TB

 

And the verdict on the melanoidin malt in lieu of the decoction is?????

 

It is a winner for this beer IMO. I would bump up the amount just a touch.

 

Awesome, cheers BK

 

This is spot on, IMO.

 

That, and munich malt.

 

I don't know the scare around decoction. It's not that hard and it really makes a huge difference. MO and caravienne come very close and make great beer, as well as other adjuncts, but seriously, nothing comes close to decoction.

 

I have brewed this beer a few times now and noticed a big difference when I skipped the decoction. I think it only took an extra 30-45 minutes for the brew. Not a big deal.

 

Can I ask why you made this a 4 gallon batch size. This will be my 1st attempt at scaling a recipe (I want to make it 6gal. 1/2 gallon waisted in brew kettle and half gallon waisted in fermenter 5gal in keg.). Wanted to make sure your ingredients were actually measured for 4 gal not 5 or 6

 

My brewery is designed around 4g recipes. I end up with four gallons of beer inthe fermenter. You will need to scale the recipe and adjust the efficiencies.

 

Thanks Boerderij, I'm really looking forward to trying this out. I totally screwed up my 1st extract wheat and now I have plenty more beers under my belt and have been doing all grain for at least 5 of those.

I can't tell you how grateful we newbs are to you recipe creators for giving us good beers to brew. Thanks!

 

Thanks for all the suggestions on brewing an Oberonlike beer. I am now tasting what turned out to be a great brew, although next time I will cut back on the dry hopping amounts from 1.5 oz to 1.0 oz and duration from 5 days to 3 days. I did a decoction that brought my efficiency up to 82%. The recipe I used for a 5 gal batch was:

Pony Oberony

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.90 gal
Estimated OG: 1.068 SG
Estimated Color: 4.3 SRM
Estimated IBU: 16.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 82.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
6 lbs 4 oz Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 57.01 %
4 lbs 4 oz White Wheat Malt (2.4 SRM) Grain 38.01 %
8.8 oz Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.98 %
1.05 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (30 min) Hops 10.3 IBU
1.05 oz Saaz [4.00 %] (15 min) Hops 6.6 IBU
0.50 oz Centennial [10.00 %] (Dry Hop 5 days)
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 5 days)
1 Pkgs American Wheat Ale (Wyeast Labs #1010)


Fermentation was at 67F for 3 weeks and another 5 days for the dry hopping. The American Wheat Ale yeast turned out great with a robust white head and good lacing.

I forgot to use whirlock so the brew turned out a little cloudy but I enjoy a cloudy wheat beer so all was good.

The hop aroma was very grassy and a little too pronounced. Good but a little over the top. Side by side comparisons with Oberon were a little darker, more hoppy aroma and more cloudy. I was going to harvest the Oberon yeast but ran out of time to step it up in time to brew. I enjoyed this brew better than Oberon and am going to try another batch in a month or so.

My dogs name is Capone and his nickname is Pony Rony so we named the brew Pony Oberony.

 

Question to those of you who use the decoction method. I just want to make sure I understand this method correctly before I try it. Do you add "x" amount of water at or around the 100F mark (protein rest); drain off and add some more water at a higher temperature, drain off and add yet more water at even a higher temp, drain off and then sparge?

I chose a double decoction mash in BeerSmith and it looks like I would end up with over 8 gal. in the BK, but I'm sure I'm missing something. Also, do you recommend the single, double or triple decoction and why? Please help.

 

Maybe this video will help....

http://www.brewingtv.com/episodes/2011/3/29/brewing-tv-episode-34-decoction-day.html

 

Try out the link below, this is the mash method I used for my Oberon like brew.

http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Decoction_mash#Enhanced_Double_Decoction

It does take a few more hours to brew but it helps to have a few extra brew pots, (I have 2 - 5 gal ss gal pots and use two burners on my stove) besides my 15 gal brew pot.

The method I use draws about 60-65% of the initial mash in volume of mostly grain and some liquid into two separate pots, each one with a calculated amount to get to the each rest at 133F and the second to 155F.

The second decoction draw is about 50% of the total mash volume of just liquid to bring the mash up to 168F.

I also add about 10% fresh water to each decoction draw to compensate for boil loss. To learn about the calculations involved in doing this I dont use Beersmith but have created an excel spreadsheet that uses the standard infusion water calc formulas to calculate the volumes required with variables to calculate infusion volumes for each step. I can then play with the variables to see what works best to have enough decoction volume to not run short of my target mash temps. I have found I have to use a very thin mash-in ratio of 2 Qts/# to get this right after falling short on my target rest temps the first few times I tried this. Practice makes it work better just like anything else. I now use this technique on several brews including Oktoberfest, Dunkel Lagers, and my Oberon like brew, Riverwest Stein beer like.

In the end I find a more flavorful beer although I have not experimented with a few of the techniques that others suggest to get the same flavors.

Kaiser has a good video as well at

BBB

 

I brew 10 gallons of Oberon every summer. I am pouring off the keg for the first time tonight. Last years batch was very good. I thought it was better than Bells batch last year. My recipe it different than the one posted. I can post it if you would like. I use hallertaue and Saaz hops. Mine also has torified wheat as well as wheat malt. I use American Wheat yeast. Color is very close but just a hint darker.

 

Please do...

 

I'd love to see it.

 

Alright I will copy and paste in from promash and post it. I am at work now so don't have access to it.

I did tap the kege last night and my oberon is full of flavor. I was very impressed. I did not try it side by side with the comercial version this time but will probably do that tonight or tomorrow seeing how I have some in the fridge.

 

Another tried & true Oberon recipe is always a good thing.

 

Crypto - I was just wondering if you could post your exact mash schedule and temps. I have been trying to develop a recipe using Boerderij brew log pics, but was wondering how your decoction schedule might differ. Thanks!

 

6lbs American 2 row
4lbs American White wheat
.5lbs Carapils

1oz Saaz 30min 3.5% AA (leaf)
1oz Saaz 15min 3.5% AA (leaf)

.5oz Saaz 3.5%AA and 1oz Cascade 5.5%AA in secondary (dry hopped for 14 days) (leaf)

Strike water was set to 136ºF.

Mash-in at 133ºF for 15 minutes.

Pull 3 quarts of mash, bring to boiling in a separate vessel.
(About 10 more minutes).
Return to mash-tun -
Decoction target temp is 155ºF, you may need to adjust your decoction volume. I used this decoction calculator for my math.

Rest at 155ºF for 60minutes.

Pull 1 gallon of mash. Bring to a boil, return for a mash out.
Mash target temp is 168ºF.
Rest at 168ºF for 15 minutes. (again, using the Quaff calculator for my old setup)

Chilled rapidly, heavy oxygen, fermented in primary at 63ºF for five days. Racked to secondary, added hops, bottled after two weeks.

The yeast from the oberon bottle is a little small, so I would expect you will have flocculation issues. I am unable to find a good substitute from WL or WY for this yeast, but it may not matter.

OG 1.059
FG 1.014-016.

let me know if there's any other way I can help. I have no made this on my 20 gallon system yet, but I plan to do it soon.

 

Thanks a lot!