Balancing.... in reverse

Hi all,

Thanks to this forum I sucessfully built a DIY glycol remote keezer last year.
6ft from my taps in a separate room.

However... now I need to move my chest freezer, and the resulting line length will be 50ft!

Is this too far? Is it still possible to balance?
I have seen so many calculators with so many different outcomes.

EG: http://www.mikesoltys.com/2012/09/17/determining-proper-hose-length-for-your-kegerator/

According to this I should be able to use 1/4" hose at 21psi to get an acceptable pour?

Al feedback greatly appreciated.

 

Whatever you do, you want to end up with a gas pressure setting that isn't going to over-carb your beer.
So, while Mike's calculator might lead you to use 50 feet of 1/4" ID at 21 psi, just think what 21 psi of CO2 is going to do to the beer in your kegs.

Bad juju.

As 1/4" ID is too restrictive, you'll likely find that you'll need to run 5/16" ID. But you'll then find that 5/16" doesn't provide enough resistance, so you'll need to use a length of 3/16" ID tubing right before the faucet as a "choker" to provide the additional restriction.

The costly alternative is to use beer gas...

Cheers!

 

The higher pr sure required to push 50 feet will only result in over carbed beer if you don't use the 50 feet. The long length will drop the pressure for you and if properly balanced will give a perfect pour. No need for size reductions etc.
Many bars run beer lines in excess of 50 feet

This formula should get you there if your run is relatively flat

Line Length = (keg_pressure – 1 psi) / Resistance rate of tubing

If you have a change in elevation from the keg out to the tap use this on

L = (keg_pressure – 1 – (Height/2)) / Resistance

The resistance for your tubing choice can be found online or from the manufacturer

You can input different pressures until you get to your actual line length

 

So, confusing still.

I understand that the line will be balanced,(50ft of 1/4id @21psi) but as day_trippr says, the beer in the keg is being charged @ 21psi constantly, which will over carb it?

Last thing I want to do is spend over $500 on the wrong size trunking and have **** beer....

Thanks

 

Pressure loss is a consideration only while gas is flowing. Therefore, the vast majority of the time gas is not flowing at a rate where losses need to be considered, at least in a homebrew context. For example, while carbonating flows are very low, except when CO2 is first introduced. So, we are talking about a few extra seconds to build pressure with a long run? Secondly, except for the first few pours, before a head-space of CO2 is developed, drawing beer will work primarily off the pressure in the keg and not CO2 flowing through the line. My $0.02.

 

If anyone can figure out what ^that^ means, please post a translation...

Cheers!

 

Just so I understand this properly.... are you saying that even though the 21 PSI of CO2 at the kegs would technically over carb the beer in the kegs, by the time it travels the 50 ft in the lines it will have enough CO2 loss due to restriction that it will be carbed correctly by the time it exits at the taps?

I was under the impression that you would have to use beer gas for a run of this length to avoid having too much CO2 in solution?

Not trying to be a jerk or anything, or implying you are incorrect, just wanting to understand how it works.

 

The calculator I use shows 14 psi at 50 ish feet of 1/4" hose

Mike solty' calculator

 

If that is what he was saying, you can give that a pass...

Cheers!

 

You're right, I didn't clue into the 21 psi
The key is to reduce friction the longer length you go, that's why 1/4" is a better choice over 3/16. The pressure at the tap needs to be between zero and 1 psi for a godd pour.
For multiple taps at long lengths, with different carb levels you need to calculate for each one or use flow control taps

 

You need to keep your kegs at an appropriate temperature and CO2 pressure for your desired carbonation level. So probably around 40F and 11psi for most beers.

If you crank up to 21psi you are going to have hugely over carbed beer. Don't do that.

You then need to select a suitable line size and length to provide enough resistance so the beer pours correctly.

As you are needing some exceptionally long runs of line, you need wider bore tubing to balance your particular system.

As you are getting crazy pressures using 1/4" line, you probably need to go to 5/16" or maybe even 3/8" line to be able to balance things out.

As someone else described, you can always run the long runs in wide bore tubing and use some narrow bore at the end to fine tune the resistance. So for example you could run 1/2" 50ft lines, and then use about six feet of 3/16" tube to connect that to your faucet to fine tune the resistance to get a good pour

 

Just for interest how are you planning on chilling 50 feet of line?

 

Sorry for the confusion. I was making a point about the gas line. I should read twice and type once.

In any event, the goal is to have the same pressure loss over a longer hose run WITHOUT changing the CO2 pressure. This can ONLY be done with larger ID tubing.