Bacteria on Grain dust?

Hello,

I noticed in Papazian's book (Joy of Homebrewing) that he says to grind your grain in a different location than where you brew, due to the nasties that live on the grain.

I had never even thought of this...does anyone follow this advice? Should I change my ways? (I've only been grinding my own grain for a couple months now).

Thanks!

 

Yeah there is lots of lacto bacteria in the grain, so it's a best practice to avoid crushing the grain too close to where you brew. It also helps to keep the wort covered during chilling. I use the lid to my kettle and a clean towel.

 

Thanks...yes, I cover while cooling, but after cooling I carry the pot over to the same table that I did the crush on...so I know there is grain dust on it. I guess I'll crush in the backyard now. Learn something new everyday....

 

I still wonder about that big puff of flour/dust when I dump the grains in the strike water.

I brew on the back porch...crush on the front porch.

 

More specifically, do not crush grain where you ferment.

 

Wild yeast is also something that can get in your beer that way.

 

Indeed - don't even portion you grain bill where you ferment. Just dumping out or shoveling your grain sends all sorts of lacto up in the air.

 

mmmm....Lacto....

 

I have some horrible tasting smoke beer if you are interested!

 

BUT....Some commercial breweries in England don't necessarily heed that advice...

Listen to this.

Flyangler reminded me of this awhile back....it's fascinating.

 

Absolute bollox but then he's well known for it. Anything done before and including the boil needs no sanitisation, the only thing you have to worry about is running off to the fermenting vessel and ensure that this is sanitised. As long as the FV and anything that comes into contact with the wort post-boil is sanitised then there is no problem.

 

And as long as you don't disturb any of that fine dust when racking to your fermentor...

I mill my grist in another part of the house from where I ferment.

GT

 

I'm not, but maybe I should have saved my schwarzbier that tasted like chocolate going into the keg and like sour cream coming out four weeks later....

 

Papazian specifically advises against milling your grain where your fermenters are, not just where you brew. The OPs quote of Papazian is misleading. The rest what you say is correct; anything that touches the cooled wort must indeed be cleaned and sanitized before the wort contacts it.

To the OP: Perhaps I'm a rogue zymurgist, but I mill my grain and ferment in my basement brewshop and haven't had to contend with any wayward infections from Lactobacillus or other beer spoilage organisms. Remember as well, we aren't brewing in a sterile environment, merely a sanitary one. A little common sense goes a long way. I'm not milling grain while I'm racking to a fermenter, I cover my sanitized fermenters (a sanitized plastic sandwich baggie or bit of sanitized foil over the mouth of the carboy/BB) if I'm not ready to rack to them, etc. If you are diligent in your sanitation and exercise common sense, you needn't worry in my experience.

In the podcast referenced, a brewer recounts a visit to an old British brewery where the grain was being milled with no separation between the grain station and the open fermenters.


There are a couple of things at work here that makes it possible: *

(1) Large amounts of vigorous, healthy yeast. Brewer's yeast are voracious little buggers, and will definitely outcompete any wayward bacteria that might find their way in. Underpitching negates this.

(2) Relatively quick consumption of the ale. Most British ales are, by design, low-gravity session beers made for quick consumption. Brewed, packaged and served within a fortnight. Spoilage organisms take quite a while to assert themselves and make themselves known.

* Disclaimer: this is a theoretical discussion. If you attempt this, you do so at your own risk.

 

I try to minimize the chance that the grain dust will get on or in a fermentor that is not closed. When you grind your grain you get dust all over yourself. If you don't wash your forearms or change your shirt you run the risk of dusting your fermentor when you are racking into it.

 

Sure there is lacto on the grain, there is also lacto and wild yeast on all sorts of other stuff. If you are already beating the bugs with your sanitation method you have nothing to worry about. I grind in the exact same spot that I mash, boil, and rack my chilled wort. If you are sealing up your fermenters with airlocks then it doesn't really matter what you do around them.

That said I also built my mill so it sits right on top of my mash tun and mills directly into, so I really don't get any grain dust in the air.

 

Yeah this is all a bunch of crap. If you boil your wort and put an airlock on your fermenter... then just don't worry about it.

I mean you could take a **** on top of your fermenter, and you shouldn't have to worry about it.

 

I do all my grain milling outside. my wife is a little bit on the OCD side when it comes to the house being clean ... So needless to say I don't want grain dust flying around the house.

 

Didn't mean to misquote....

I guess you would have to picture my brewing space to know what I was concerned about. The only time the boiled and cooled wort is uncovered is when I'm racking to a carboy, but the pot is only a foot or so away from the spot where I crush the grains. I do this in my garage with the door open...so I suppose a breeze could stir around some of that grain dust. I haven't had any issues yet, it's just that I had never heard of this in 15 years of brewing. I happened to be paging through Papazian's book one evening when I saw his recommendation...wanted to know how you all deal with this. Thanks for all the good responses!

 

This is what I'm planning on doing, now that I have my rig set up and going I plan to modify my milling setup to just sit right on top the MLT, I may need to add a stirrer to stir the water while I mill in to it, or just recirculate.

The local microbrewery mills right into their mash tun, which is where I got the idea.

 

According to Kaiser, some breweries even mill underwater!

 

I'm the wacky one around here who crushes at the LHBS. Thank goodness I don't brew there, too (for the most part ).


TL

 

Same here.

 

I crush, brew and ferment in my brewshop.

• I scoop grains gently into my scale bucket.
• I use a large towel to cover the bucket when I pour into my grain mill.
• I’ve taped all the seams of my barley crusher to eliminate dust escapage.
• I mop my floors with mild bleach water once or twice a week.
• I wipe down all horizontal surfaces in the brewshop with mild bleach water once a month.
• My wort is not exposed except during transfers.
• All wort or beer containing vessels are stored upside down.
• All wort or beer containing vessels get a last minute hot rinse before being used.

70+ batches crushed, brewed and fermented in this shop and not one infection.

It can be done.

 

Same, Same.

I crush, brew, and rack in my garage too. I ferment in a freezer in the garage but NEVER crush in the freezer (not enough light when the door is shut).

I too keep my buckets protected and make sure they are put away before I blow the dust off my mill station and wash down the floor with the hose.

 

I crush, mash, and rack in my Kitchen and I have not had any issues yet but still food for thought.
I weigh my grains in a big tupperware container on a digital scale
My BC fits nicely over my homer bucket and I just dump the grain into the BC and fire up the drill
I transfer the grains from the bucket to the mash tun. I do not dump it all in at once more of a slower spreading out motion
I boil in the garage or outside on the back deck and I have never covered the wort in the keggle. If I had a lid for the keggle I might consider it.

I have not had any off flavors yet

 

Yes there are lacto bacteria on the grain husks.
Yes milling the grain will throw grain dust containing lacto bacteria in to the air to settle on any surface available.
Yes these can infect your beer if proper precautions are not taken.
So one easy solution for many people is to mill and handle dry grain some where different from where they are handling cooled wort.
However there are other ways to handle the problem. And if perform normal cleaning and sanitizing routines before transfering the wort to the fermenter then it should be no problem. The small amount of bacteria that is able to get to the wort is easily out competed by the yeast.

Craig