Alcohol Transportation

Hey guys,

I can't find the pertinent laws for Pennsylvania, so I figured I would just ask my favorite forum. My sister is 20 and would like to transport some of my new homebrew within the state for her boyfriend's 21st Bday. Is it legal for her to transport the beer by herself or does she have to have someone who is 21 in the car? My thoughts were that she had to have someone who is 21 in there, but I figured that I should at least ask

 

Is it legal, probably not. But I would just put it in the trunk and tell her not to get pulled over.

 

Not advocating any crime, but possibly a loophole, if an adult were to lock the alcohol in a container and mail the key to the recipient, or better yet use a combination lock on a metal locker and phone the combo to the recipient, then there would be no basis for:

"Constructive Possession

Constructive possession is a legal theory used to extend possession to situations where a person has no hands-on custody of an object. Most courts say that constructive possession, also sometimes called "possession in law," exists where a person has knowledge of an object plus the ability to control the object, even if the person has no physical contact with it (United States

v. Derose, 74 F.3d 1177 [11th Cir. 1996]). For example, people often keep important papers and other valuable items in a bank safety deposit box. Although they do not have actual physical custody of these items, they do have knowledge of the items and the ability to exercise control over them. Thus, under the doctrine of constructive possession, they are still considered in possession of the contents of their safety deposit box. Constructive possession is frequently used in cases involving criminal possession."

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/constructive+possession

 

I would go with this, put it in the trunk and drive carefully. If she did get pulled over, what are the chances they will search her car. And as long as she doesn't start drinking you homebrews on the way home, the story of a 20 year old taking her brothers homebrew home for her boyfreinds 21st would probably end up with the cop not caring - to much paperwork for no real benifit to society. Just my $0.02

 

I pmmned Airbornguy, our resident Law enforcement officer. He might have some insight. I don't think it's really an issue. how often does a vehicle get searched during a traffic stop if there's no probable cause for something beyond the initial stop anyway?

 

Besides, without probable cause, or a warrant, can a LEO legally search a car without owners consent?

 

It's funny, I was getting my gear together for Natl Homebrew Day and since I'm doing a burton ale I picked up some stuff today from the lhbs for tweaking the water, I now have all these ziplock baggies from them filled with strange white powders. It would not be too fun to have those tossed carelessly in the back seat of my car and get pulled over.

 

Some of my kegs have a loop on the bail to put a lock on. With a lock on the lid cannot be opened. As long as there is no disconnects In the car or way to open the keg there is no way to access the beer so it should be legal.

 

My first adventures into homebrew were at the tender age of 16, we drove to the LHBS, the lady there help us pick out a starter kit and ingredients for our first batch, from there we purchased Coopers kits from the supermarket!
We gave up after a year though, too much work for sub-par beer. We really had no guidence apart from that first visit to the LHBS (who still advocates kit and kilo batches for beginers). So we were trying to keep the beer above24 deg C all the time, bottling after a week (although we were checking with a hydrometer), and drinking after only 2 weeks in bottles :cross:
soooooo.. what were we talking about

 

lol, probably wouldn't end well

That's an interesting move, but unfortunately, I haven't started kegging yet (I do have a brewshed about to start that I will def throw in the DIY forums and will make a keezer to go in there, so it won't be too long). Since it isn't going to happen for a month-ish, is it legal to just mail the homebrew (expensive, I know, but DEFINITELY not as expensive as furnishing and possession charges)

 

This thread reminds me of one of my younger days. Heading up to the cabin with the boys (all about 20 at that point) with a trunk full of 10 cases of high life and a couple of shotguns. Got pulled over in a speed trap, thank god they didn't check the trunk.

 

lol, i have some corn sugar from farmhousebrewing, and have not identifiers on them... i thought if i got caught with these it would not be a fun day... they look like kilo bags from the movies. so right now i make my mom think they are something they are not :cross:

 

somehow i doubt its that clean of a line... most states have an 18 year old serving law (as a waiter or waitress) and 21 year old consumption law (in public) and possession and consumption are totally different and have different laws. ... i'd venture a guess (only a guess) that if its in the trunk, you're legal.

i frankly wouldn't think twice, but i'm the kind of guy that lets his 9 year old take a sip of the newest batch to try (he hates beer but has honest feedback like "yuck, its sour" or "yuck, its bitter" or just "yuck") so i probably shouldn't be listened to.

 

I know from experience. PA sells by the case. Also they don't sell liquor and beer in the same stores. Felt stupid asking where's the beer in the liquor store. Lol.

 

Possession: completely illegal, no loopholes. She can't be the person in possession of that alcohol.

Likelyhood of getting caught: not much, but if she gets into a serious accident, it could become a problem.

 

In some states it is legal, sealed container, in the trunk

Edit: Actually thats probably not true. Im a liar. I admit it.

 

Actually:
http://www.pennsylvaniaduilaws.org/pennsylvaniaalcohollaws.html

"Minors that are between 18 and 21 years of age are allowed to transport and sell alcohol."

Perhaps, that is meant for someone who is employed to transport alcohol.

 

That's the thing about possession, you have to have knowledge AND access. Interesting to see the differences of interpretation, wonder how a lawyer or judge would reply, guess it's up to the individual, as always, to make their own best judgments.

 

I wouldn't even bother worrying about it.

 

Bigger concern: If said minor is nailed for illegal possession, the legal system will want to also prosecute the individual that provided the alcohol to the minor.

 

From what I read, in most states, doesn't matter if there is a 21 year old in the car. It would have to be a parent.

That being said, we all break the law from time to time and I assume she drinks. It's a calculated risk she'd have to consider taking knowing the consequences and the odds of getting caught. She isn't hurting anyone. Let her decide knowing it may be illegal, but so are most things that the average 20 year old does.

 

So I wonder if an under 21 UPS driver can be arrested for possession while delivering my competition entries?

Anyway to answer the other question, yes you can ship beer, just not with USPS, you have to use UPS or Fedex. They have rules against it, but not laws.

 

Thanks about clarifying that bit. A big thank you to everyone for all of the input on this one. I appreciate it.

 

actually you can buy beer in grocery stores here but it has to be in a designated area that is separate from the rest of the store, yeah our laws are so screwed up...

 

No worries about the UPS driver. Minimum age is 21 or 23.5 depending on vehicle.

 

+1!...Although there's starting to be some loopholes...some grocery stores that serve food for on-premise consumption are selling 6-packs as "BYOB;" consume on premise with your food, although you can just as easily buy and take home as well...