advice for planning on efficiency increase

I have been brewing all grain for a several months now and have dialed in my efficiency based on my LHBS crush. I have been getting in the ball park of 73-75 %. Now I have a barley crusher and know that people report a efficiency increase when they do their own crush. I have been tweaking a popular orange cascades pale ale from this site and I am happy with it but if I get 83% efficiency instead of 73% then that will be a totally different beer. Likewise if I plan for higher and it doesnt really happen then I am also looking at a different beer.

I use beer smith exclusively for recipe formulation.
Below is the recipe formulated for 75% efficiency

Please give me your thoughts on if I should reformulate the recipe for a higher number


cascade orange wes main

Extra Special/Strong Bitter (English Pale Ale) (8 C)



Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.11 gal
Boil Time: 60 min
End of Boil Vol: 5.98 gal
Final Bottling Vol: 5.25 gal
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage


Date: 03 Dec 2013
Brewer: Wes
Asst Brewer:
Equipment: Wesley Moore System
Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 78.4 %
Taste Rating: 30.0


Taste Notes:




7 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 1 69.0 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 2 9.2 %
1 lbs Munich Malt (9.0 SRM) Grain 3 9.2 %
1 lbs Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM) Grain 4 9.2 %
6 oz Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.4 %
0.85 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - First Wort 60.0 min Hop 6 17.8 IBUs
1.10 Items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 15.0 mins) Fining 7 -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 8 6.9 IBUs
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 9 3.8 IBUs
2.00 oz Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 10 -
1.00 oz Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 mins) Spice 11 -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 1.0 min Hop 12 0.8 IBUs
1.0 pkg SafAle English Ale (DCL/Fermentis #S-04) [23.66 ml] Yeast 13 -


Gravity, Alcohol Content and Color

Est Original Gravity: 1.055 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.016 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 5.2 %
Bitterness: 29.3 IBUs
Est Color: 7.8 SRM

Measured Original Gravity: 1.058 SG
Measured Final Gravity: 1.010 SG
Actual Alcohol by Vol: 6.3 %
Calories: 192.7 kcal/12oz


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Sparge Water: 5.02 gal
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: TRUE


Total Grain Weight: 10 lbs 13.9 oz
Grain Temperature: 72.0 F
Tun Temperature: 72.0 F
Mash PH: 5.20

Mash Steps


Name

Description

Step Temperature

Step Time

Mash In Add 16.79 qt of water at 168.8 F 155.0 F 60 min

Sparge: Batch sparge with 2 steps (Drain mash tun , 5.02gal) of 168.0 F water
Mash Notes: Simple single infusion mash for use with most modern well modified grains (about 95% of the time).



Carbonation and Storage

Carbonation Type: Keg
Pressure/Weight: 12.54 PSI
Keg/Bottling Temperature: 45.0 F
Fermentation: Ale, Single Stage


Volumes of CO2: 2.3
Carbonation Used: Keg with 12.54 PSI
Age for: 30.00 days
Storage Temperature: 65.0 F

 

Well, I hate to say it, but the only way to know for sure is to brew it. When I needed to dial in my numbers after making some changes (a grain mill and a full false bottom) I just made a SMaSH to get my numbers, and then adjusted my recipes based on that. And that way I wasn't disappointed with whatever beer I made, because I had no expectations.

 

As I was looking at your recipe, it occurred to me that you could also just brew this, and then after collecting your wort, take the gravity reading and add water to the kettle to get the correct gravity. You'd have to adjust your spices and hops to account for the now-larger batch size, but it's an option.

 

I think that is going to be my plan. I am going to just proceed ahead and adjust the hops and other stuff on the fly.
I was considering doing a basic cream ale to see what happened, but I think just going for this will be fine.

If my IBU is a point or two swing its not a big deal and I can adjust the OG with water.

 

Do you have a refractometer and a way of accurately measuring your volumes? If so, it should be pretty easy to do the calculations on the fly. What you'll do is take only what you need of your second runnings to get the gravity points you need, and substitute water for the rest.

If you haven't done gravity point calculations before, it's pretty simple as long as you're comfortable with very basic algebra.

For example:
If you are planning on making 5.5 gallons of a 1.060 beer, you would convert the SG (1.060) into gravity units (GU) by subtracting 1 and multiplying by 1000. Or, stated more simply, drop the 1.0, leaving 60. So 1.060 SG = 60 GU.

Then you multiply by the volume, in this case 5.5 gallons, to give you "gravity points" (which are in GU * gallons) -- 5.5 * 60 = 330 GP.

Just making numbers up off the top of my head:
Suppose you get 4 gallons of first runnings at 1.070, this is 4G * 70GU = 280GP. So you need 50 more GP to get where you need to be.

You sparge another 3 gallons (assuming you will boil off 1.5 gallons, for a total preboil volume of 7gal) into a separate container, and take a gravity reading. This one says 1.030, so you have 3G * 30GU = 90GP. You only need 50 GP, so you only take 3Gal*(50GP/90GP) = 1.66 gallons of the second runnings. Then you top up the kettle with 1.33 gallons.

If you want to double check that you have the right preboil numbers, simply take the desired gravity points (330 GU*gal) and divide by the preboil volume (7gal), which gives you 47GU, meaning you should have 7 gallons of 1.047 wort pre-boil.

 

Braukaiser.com has an excellent article on troubleshooting efficiency. The 2 basic parts are 1) Conversion Efficiency and 2) Lauter/Sparge efficiency. Outside of these two things loss due to deadspace/filtering/hoses/pumps are the other factors to total efficiency (brewhouse).

There is a chart there that will tell you what your MLT gravity should be based on your water:grain.

After sparging there is another chart that shows you how to figure out how much "sugar" is left behind in the MLT.

This Lautering loss subtracted from your conversion efficiency lets you know how well you captured all the sugar your grain has to offer. You should be able to get this number in the 90+% range. If you can't, the analysis let's you know at which stage you need improvement.

 

I've been reading these forums for a bit, and..i'm curious as to why it matters so much to get a better efficiency? 75-85% should be fine for a homebrewer.

 

Did you read the same book I did?

 

first off 75-85% is pretty stellar and many all grain brewers would be happy hitting 70% consistently.

I am happy with 75 but I got a mill and fact is it will increase efficiency and to what extent on my system is unknown. I didnt know if I should proceed or just brew a simple smash beer first.

BTW welcome to the forums

 

Exactly. It isn't that we have to increase efficiency. After all, at the homebrew scale, a few extra pounds of grain per batch is way cheaper than upgrading all the time seeking higher efficiency. It's really about being able to predict efficiency and repeat the process, knowing what numbers to expect. I got a grain mill because the LHBS had big problems with consistent crush. Now I know I'll get a good crush, and I consistently get 80-81% conversion efficiency. Not interested in getting better efficiency, just want predictability and repeatability.

 

I would make sure you know what gap your LHBS is using in their grain mill and what speed they are milling and use that for the first time and I am betting you will get similar efficiency. Then you can adjust from there and try to get better efficiency with a finer crush if you so choose. I believe the reason that people will get better efficiencies from milling their own grains is because they normally go finer than the LHBS will and slower. The LHBS is going to go not quite as fine on purpose to give the brewer a better shot at not having a stuck sparge.

 

That is excellent advice.
I will ask them. I wouldnt mind going from a consistent 75% to 80% but it must be consistent.

 

With my barley crusher I milled at .036 and got a consistent 83%. With my new monster mill 3 with .036 I get 93%. So I would plan in the 80's depending on your loses