A Brewing Water Chemistry Primer

1. Water in
2. The water.

 

I tried searching this thread but didn't find it. Are there weights (in grams, etc) listed for these additions so people making batches <5 gallons can make similar adjustments? I don't know what a teaspoon of CaCl would weigh vs a teaspoon of gypsum.

 

About 5 grams each.

 

I am going to try my first decoction this weekend. It's just 2-row and wheat. Do I still use the acid malt or does the decoction have any effect on the mash ph?

 

You still use the acid malt but a decoction can sometimes produce a slight lowering of the pH.

 

I'm about 1/3 of the way through this thread. If this particular topic is cleared up at some point, I will come back and retract this question. However, in the 30 or so pages I have read, I seem to be getting some conflicting impressions about expected pH at room temperature.

I always measure my pH at room temp with a meter. Although my meter claims to have ATC, I usually cool my sample to about 70F in order to preserve the probe health.

Now for my confusion:

Early in the thread, I believe I've read where AJ says that a pH of approximately 5.2 (ideally 5.3 to 5.4) is what we're all shooting for. I also gather from what I am reading that AJ believes this range to be acceptable when measured at room temperature.

However, I just read (in the page 25 range) where Martin claims a pH of 5.2 at room temp results in an overly acidic beer.

I've always used 5.2 at room temperature as my guide and for the last year or so, have been able to use my meter, RO water and lactic acid + salt additions to hit 5.2-5.3 pretty consistently on my beers.

I use TH's spreadsheet to help me get a ballpark view of my additions' effects prior to brewday. My RA number (per that sheet) are almost always at or below 0.

From a taste perspective, I have over acidified a couple of times, but never to the point where it rendered the beer undrinkable. Only that with two beers, I know that I've made tasting notes that I felt they would have been better if I'd brought the pH up slightly. (one a porter where the black malt character was a little harsh, and one an amber that was a little tart for what I was targeting)

So my question is this. Knowing that I measure my pH at 70F (I cool my sample in an ice bath and monitor the temp), what is a good pH to be targeting when measuring at that temp? Should I shoot for 5.2? Or when measuring at that temperature, should I be trying to get closer to the 5.4-5.5 range?

I think I've gotten enough of a handle on how my acid/mineral additions change the pH in my system, that I should be able to make some adjustments and pretty easily hit the higher number. I'm just a little confused as to what number I should be shooting for at 70F.

If it helps, the beers I repeat most often are British bitters, brown ales and the occasional stout or porter. I also have an American blonde that has a regular spot in my rotation as my neighbors really enjoy it.

 

The first thing to keep in mind is that a low pH will not result in a beer with a low pH. Within reason, beer pH is independent of mash and kettle pH as beer pH is set by the yeast. Low kettle pH and the yeast simply expend less effort at establishing the pH they want. Let kettle pH get too high and they have to work harder i.e. expend more metabolic energy producing acid than they would otherwise. There is probably an argument in here that says if you acidify the wort to 4.8 before pitching you'll get more alcohol but I'm not prepared to make it as I can't support it.

This does not mean that a mash pH of 5.2 at room temperature is good. Something more like 5.4 is probably appropriate. This doesn't have to do with yeast health so much as that there are hundreds of reactions going on in a mash tun and 5.4 seems to me to be the pH at which they all seem to synergize best and produce the best tasting beer. In reality pH is like any other variable. For a particular beer there is a pH that will produce a beer better than any other pH. A commercial operator brewing the same beer hundreds of time in a year may have a prayer of finding out what that is but we as home brewers don't brew enough to make the fine tweaks and perform the taste tests necessary to find that. 5.4 seems to work. Being off a tenth or two in either direction doesn't seem to invite disaster.

 

I just did this addition to my water for an ipa. 2tsp of gypsum 2tsp of calcium chloride. My ppm is in the low five hundreds. Does that seem high to anyone else?

Sent from my PG86100 using Home Brew mobile app

 

Sent from my PG86100 using Home Brew mobile app

 

I'd consider 1 tsp of each in, presumably, 5 gal, a lot. The Primer talks about numbers like that because most home brewers seem to like beers with those high levels. I really think 1/2 tsp of CaCl2 and no gypsum is a good starting point. If you are sure you want sulfate, as determined by adding it to beers at tasting, then 1/2 gypsum and 1/2 CaCl2 is a good starting point.

 

What is the gypsum amount to double? The baseline has no gypsum to begin with...

 

I have always taken it to mean double the amount from the British beer, so 2 tablespoons or 10 grams if you prefer.

 

Just so. IMO that's a lot of salts but some say they like it that way.

 

Does the primer specifically apply to ag or is it useful for extract brewing as well?


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

Ag only

 

The main idea of the primer is to keep the water chemistry simple and to adjust the ph of the mash. Extract brewers have the mash step already done for them so there isn't any need to make any adjustments.

 

Got it thanks for the reply


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

Extract brewers could experiment with adding minerals to the kettle to enhance flavors for certain styles, like adding gypsum to an IPA for instance. That's probably covered jn other threads though.

 

Used the primer for 2 brews! The results have been very good. I did an Irish red and a DIPA. Very simple and straight forward. What a great way to start. If you are concerned, make a basic recipe and try it. This is what I plan to do from now on. Start with RO water and build it from there. Some great piece of mind when you don't have to deal with local water.


Sent from my iPad using Home Brew

 

Making hoppy brown ale (aka Janet's Brown), grist is:

Two row 12.5 lbs
Crystal 40 1.25 lbs
Carapils 1.00 lbs
Wheat malt 1.00 lbs
Choc. (420 L) 0.50 llbs
SRM 22

Using 100% distilled water, adding 3 tsp gypsum, 1 tsp calcium chloride, no acid malt. Per Brewer's Friend gives me Ca 112, Cl 56, SO4 193, mash PH of 5.37. And a 3:1 sulfate to chloride ratio, which is good for a hoppy beer. Does that look doable?

I know Tasty's water profile for this beer uses a 7:1 Sulfate/Chloride ratio, so if I want to up the ratio a little, 1 tsp of Epson Salt will give me a 4.2:1 ratio and 5.36 estimated Ph.

Any forseeable issues with either of those profiles?

 

If you know you like the effects of sulfate then its OK but I always advocate starting with a much lower amount of sulfate and working your way up in subsequent batches.

Try to put the chloride:sulfate ratio concept out of your head. The proper amount of chloride and the proper amount of sulfate for the beer you like best are independent variables. Their ratio will fall where it may depending on the beer and your palate.

 

Hi,

So i'm getting ready to brew a pale ale, but I'm having a hard time understanding the primer section a bit. I came accross this post:


------------
"Baseline: Add 1 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate (what your LHBS sells) to each 5 gallons of water treated. Add 2% sauermalz to the grist.

Deviate from the baseline as follows:


Hefeweizen: For soft water beers (i.e Pils, Helles). Use half the baseline amount of calcium chloride and increase the sauermalz to 3% (you can make great Hefe with soft water too).

Porter: For beers that use roast malt (Stout, porter): Skip the sauermalz.

Light Ale: For British beers: Add 1 tsp gypsum as well as 1 tsp calcium chloride

IPA: For very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum.

---------
When I read "Light Ale" - Would that mean, 1 tsp gypsum, 1tsp calcum chloride and 2% sauermalz?

Or would it be: 2 tsp of calcium chloride dihydrate, 1tsp gypsum and Add 2% sauermalz to the grist ? IM not sure if the 'deviations from baseline mean' ... 'in addition too' or that they stand on their own.

Thanks,
Jon

 

So if I am reading primer right, for a Dortmunder export, I would be looking at 4 tsp Calcium Chloride and 2 gypsum plus 2% of the grist bill in acid malt?

Throwing this into Brewers Friend's water calculator to see what comes up, with a grist of 11 lbs base malt, 1.5 ounce melanoidin malt, and the 2% acid malt which comes to 3.5 ounces...and 5 gallons mash water, 4.75 sparge, and treating only mash water, I get these numbers (with distilled water):

Ca 186
Cl 238
So4 124
ph 4.93

Beside pH being too low, Chloride is almost double sulfate giving me a very malty profile. Obviously a Dortmunder should be a more balanced profile or edge even very slightly to to hoppier side. What am I doing wrong?

 

The baseline is 1 tsp of each. Doubling that would give you 2 tsp of each. That's plenty (more than enough actually) and yes, you would need 2% sauermalz.

 

So I read about 30 pages and didn't find an answer to my question, my apologies if it was later in the thread. Brewing a double ipa BIAB, no sparge. At what point should I add the calcium chloride and gypsum? Before grains in or after I pull the gains out?

 

You would add them to the water just as you would with more conventional methods of brewing.

PS: I admire your persistence in slogging through 30 pp.

 

Ha, trying to learn all I can. I admire your persistence in responding to this thread for so long. Ive never treated water at all before. Should I toss it in while climbing to strike temp?

 

That's what I do.
Give it a couple good stirs to make sure it gets dissolved as it's heating up.

 

That will work but gypsum dissolves a little easier at lower temperature so do it at the beginning of the ramp rather than the end.

 

When is the right time for an extract brewer to make water adjustments?


Sent from my NSA monitored iPhone.

 

As much of water tweaking is done to insure correct pH for mash reactions when the mashing is done by an extract manufacturer that concern goes away which leaves flavor considerations. If you want more or less body, sweetness, roundness you can adjust chloride. If you want more or less assertive hops bitterness you can adjust sulfate. If you want a minerally quality or a salty taste then you can adjust accordingly.

Does the carrier charge extra for this?

 

^^^^^^90% of my beers are IPA/APA's so where should the water numbers be to best utilize the hops?


Sent from my NSA monitored iPhone.

 

Best utilization and best hop perception are two different things. Utilization can be improved by increasing kettle pH. This, if taken too far, can result in unpleasantly harsh bitterness.

Adjustment of chloride and sulfate levels for the most pleasing beer is best done by experiment in which you add bits of sulfate and chloride to your beer as you taste it and then reflect the ion levels that give the most pleasing result in the kettle. This is hard to do if you don't know the starting point so you should, if you intend to do this, get the water analyzed or get an analysis from your municipal supplier.

 

Considering some of the amounts are pretty small to start with, like a teaspoon for 5 gallons, do you do this as a dilution? If so, what amounts do you find useful? I guess we have to think sample size and part per million. A 4 ounce sample size and drop sized additions so you don't dilute the sample too much? Excuse me if you've answered this in the past but I was away for 11 months earning a living. Back to the important stuff now.

 

As mentioned, the extract has already had its pH optimized for good extraction, conversion, and body. However, the water used in subsequent extract brewing still requires some attention.

For those brewers that steep accessory grains, making sure that the steeping water has an appropriate alkalinity level is wise. So attending to that water adjustment prior to steeping is appropriate. If those steeping grains are all pale colored, then low alkalinity water might be required. If you are steeping roasted grains, then higher alkalinity steeping water might be desirable (or allowable).

In the case of the water used to dilute the extract, it would only be important to adjust that water's alkalinity just prior to the boil. Using very low alkalinity water for extract dilution is ideal and is recommended. But some brewers don't have that luxury or need. Then their tap water alkalinity may need some neutralization in order to avoid a high kettle wort pH which can make the beer flavor dull and the hopping harsh.

With regard to mineral adjustments for flavor effect, those can be added at any time in the steeping, dilution, or boiling process. Although you could add those minerals at the fermentation stage, it just seems unwise to add a potential contamination vector at that stage when you can easily add it in the kettle and have it sterilized.

Enjoy!

 

There is a tension between utilization and flavor. Alpha acids are more readily extracted at high pH (because acids have low pKa values), but they are more readily isomerized at low pH (because the isomerization is acid catalyzed). Thus high pH gives you better utilization, but muddled bitterness, while low pH gives you a sharper bitterness, but worse utilization.


In my recent experience (I'm new to water chemistry), pH ~5.3 and sulphate ~70-100 mg/L gives the cleanest hop bitterness and allows the late hop additions to shine.

 

Been using this method for the last 3-4 batches and it has worked great! pH has been +/- .1 of 5.2 each time and have made IPA's and Stouts with the same results.

Thanks, AJ!


Sent from my iPhone using Home Brew

 

My first post. I pick up a lot of good information on the site but one thing about the water primer concerns me. I'm about to brew a highly hopped DIPA. The recommendation for very minerally beers (Export, Burton ale): Double the calcium chloride and the gypsum. Wouldn't 2 tsp of calcium chloride (5 gal batch) lead to an excessively high chloride level? Using BruN Water, even 1 tsp with DI water appears to result in an excessive Cl level. Am I missing something?

Cheers,
IKR

 

1 teaspoon puts me up around 85 ppm for a 3 gallon batch, so no, one teaspoon shouldn't put you over for a 5 gallon batch. By definition a "minerally beer" is going to have lots of minerals. The primer is a place to start. If you are doing a double IPA I'd stick with the gypsum and forget the calcium chloride. Keep it simple until you understand what each the gypsum and calcium chloride bring to the party.

 

My apologies if this has been answered. I read through this entire thread about 4 months ago, but the search function doesn't seem to bring anything up. I do small batch BIAB and usually use about 5 gallons of 100% RO water for the mash and don't sparge. I recently used one of the brew water calculators and it had me add 17 and 34 ML of 10% phosphoric to a brown ale and a cream ale respectively. I thought this seemed high and now after kegging there is definitely a bitter aftertaste to these beers and they finished sweet with proper attenuation.

The question: Is there an addition that could be made to the original post or reply to this inquiry for acid additions by beer profile? I am seeming to have trouble locking in these figures and would rather not make another dumper batch. For example instead of 2% sauermalz for the baseline add ___ ML of 10% phosphoric acid, Soft water beers add ____ ML and beers with roast malt add ____ ML (or it sounds like just leave out altogether).

I really appreciate the help. For those newer brewers that need a KISS method for water profiles it would seem like an easy resource to make a chart by beer style. The chart would be based around 100% RO water that is built back up so everyone that uses the information would have a universal control. Maybe once provided this information I could put something together for the greater good. Thanks in advance for your help!












































Sent from my iPad using Home Brew