Anyone using a filter and bottling?

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spiny_norman

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I'm starting to think about polishing my beer. What's the deal with filters? Can I use one and still keep some yeast in suspension? I'd like to take out all the sediment, etc., but not filter it too finely that the beer doesn't carbonate in the bottle. And any implications if dry hopping (I do mostly DIPAs)?
 
Uh..hate to break it to you...but if you bottle, you get sediment it's part of the process.....and really it's only an issue to people who were raised on dead highly filtered and tasteless BMC's...NOT real living beers.....

We get this quite often from new brewers....I'm just going to post my info here for you. It's got some info for you and some tips, I have very little yeast in my bottles.....

CTRL-V

Dont fear the yeast! The yeast is your friend, and really isnt a big deal.

This comes up a lot from new brewers, especially since we in the states have grown up with fizzy yellow DEAD BEER as opposed beer cultures where living beers (such as homebrew) are consumed...

Here's a rant I wrote on this subject, don't take it personal I'm not ranting at you....It just contains some info you might be able to use in your edumacation of you, your friends and family about "living beers."


Anyway here's the "rant." (like I said it was to someone else.)

Drink bud....otherwise get used to it.

It's a fact of life when you make living beers. Unless you keg or force carb there needs to be living yeast in your beer to carb and conditiion.

Rather than try to avoid it you should relish in the fact that you have made REAL LIVING BEER as opposed to tasteless and processed commercial crap...It's not to be dreaded it's to be celebrated.

Learn to pour homebrew properly and get over it...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xyXn4UBjQkE

The Belgians practically worship it, for all it's healthful benefits...

brewersyeast.jpg


Think of carbing/conditioning as another (but tiny) fermentation, in a small (12, 16, or 22 ounce) carboy. The yeast converts the sugar (priming solution) to a miniscule amount of alcohol (not really enough to change the abv of the beer) and CO2...The CO2 builds up in the headspace, is trapped and is reabsorbed in the solution...

Most of the time we don't notice this, (except for new brewers who stare at their bottles then start a "wtf" thread) but depending on the yeast, a mini krauzen forms on top of the bottle, then it falls, like in your fermenter and that becomes the "sludge" at the bottom of the bottles. As it falls it also scrubs the beer clean of many off flavors on the way down.

This is very similar to the trub at the bottom of your fermenter, only obvioulsy much much smaller.

Now some yeast are more flocculant then others, also depending on some brewing things one may do, some beers have very little noticeable yeast at the bottom, either because it just din't form that much OR it wasn't very flocculant and it is still in solution.

A long primary helps tighten the cake in primary, as does crash cooling...Racking to a secondary, adding finings and crash cooling all affect how much yeast is in suspension in the beer to help carb it...Also the type of yeast will change the amount of apparant yeast in the bottom, or in solution...

Also chilling the bottles down for at least a week after the 3 weeks @ 70 will help make the beer clearer and pull the yeast down to the bottom.

When I bottle I always run the autosiphon once across the bottom of the fermenter to make sure I DO kick up enough yeast for carbonation.

A lot of my beers have very little yeast at the bottom of the bottle, some appear to not have any at all, even though they seem to carb up fine.

also remember SOME beers, like Hefes are supposed to be cloudy with suspended yeasts.

For me personally, sometimes I intentionally dump the yeast in my glass, other times I do the "pour to the shoulder" method, where you watch the yeast mover up to the shoulder of the beer, and stop pouring just as the yeast is about to come out...

Now as opposed to the OP that thinks filtered dead beers are better than real beers, here's a pretty comrehensive list of all the commercial beers that are bottle conditioned...it's not too up to date though...but it is impressive...this is what a lot of us who ACTUALLY BOTTLE HARVEST THE GLORIOUS YEASTS from beers to capture the strains, use as a rough reference...

Yeasts from Bottle Conditioned Beers


Now if you look at this list, and then compare it to the "clear beers" (meaning BMC) you will quickly see that the kind of beer the OP is referring to is actually in the minority..

See there are actually more commercial bottle conditioned WITH YEAST SEDIMENT in stores, in bottleshops, and in most of our fridges than there are dead and filtered beers...

I enter contests...and placed decently last summer....in fact the biggest comments I got this summer was on the CLARITY of my beer..one of my beers was describes as being jewell like...and ruby like...I believe it comes from the fact that I leave it in primary for a month..use finings to clear it, and give it a nice period of bottle conditioning, make sure I cool the wort quicky and chill long enough to eliminate haze..... In other words brew properly....

If you work on you beer process, AND pour properly yeast sediment is not really an issue...it's a tiny bit of beer left behind in the bottle where there is a glass of uber clear beer. There's no yeast in this beerglass of mine, what little there is is still in the bottle.

pizza_and_beer.jpg


Even if you do decide to go the expensive route of some sort of filter setup, you are going to do what the BMC manufacturers end up doing, sacrificing flavor for the sake of comsetic clarity...you can't really filter the yeast out in such a way that lets all the complex flavors of your beers come through...so of those
proteins and other things that give you beer a freshness get filtered out too.

Hope this helps you be a better beer advocate!!!

We even had the telling your friends disccusion before...

FWIW I completely agree that educating people about bottle conditioned beers is a good thing, and have no qualms about doing that to my friends. But on the other hand, if a friend of a friend (or someone I didn't know but wanted to welcome to my house as a guest) came round, and the first conversation we had was me lecturing them on how to drink a beer, I would feel a bit of an uptight wanker. And much as I know that bottle-conditioned beer kicks ass, I'd still much rather not have to stand by the fridge checking that everyone was capable of operating a bottle of beer safely.

Who said you have to be an "uptight wanker" to educate?



I present to you;

Yeastie Boyz

A one act play by Revvy

Cast
HB) = Homebrewer
G) = Guest.

Scene, a living room, G and HB are hanging out watching the game.

HB) Hey you wanna try one of my beers?

G) Sure

HB grabs bottle, glass and bottle opener. Proceeds to open and pour beer properly.

HB) I dunno if you know this, but as opposed to BMC's this beer and most micro brews are alive?

G)Huh? Wha?

HB) They're still alive. See the macroswill makers pretty much kill their beers so they last on the shelf. They pasturize them and filter out the yeast, and to me, most of the flavor...that's why I like to brew, and like to go to brewpubs and stuff.

But these beers, and ones like Rogue, and Bell's don't filter, in fact the yeast is still in the bottle and that's how the beer gets carbonated.

B) Really?

HB holds up bottle to the light, showing the dregs.

HB) Yeah, see this stuff at the bottom? That's the yeast....notice how clear your beer is? If I had poured it in you beer it would have been cloudy, but I poured the beer til this stuff got to the shoulder of the bottle, leaving it behind.

HB knocks back the yeast dregs.

Actually the stuffs really good for you it's full of vitamin b and stuff. Sometimes I don't bother leaving it behind and just dump it in the bottle. And some beers like Wheats are meant to be cloudy with suspended yeast. There's different types of beer yeasts, and they give beers different tastes. Some yeast give the beer the flavor of Banana, or cloves.

Or like this beer here the yeast gives it this quality (Hb describes the yeast in the beer guest is drinking.) Can you taste it?

Some of us homebrewers actually capture the yeast from some of the beers, and grow our own cultures with them. Some are really awesome and hard to get.

G)Wow, I didn't know you knew so much about this stuff...cool.

HB) Thanks, didja know that the yeasts are so important to the Belgian brewers that guard their yeast like it was fort knox? Some of them take it so seriously that they actually filter out the strain they fermented with, and then replace it with a different one to bottle carb and condition them? They actually take out one strain (like the BMC'ers do) BUT they still add yeast at bottling time...it's that important to them.

G) What?

HB) Yeah and brewers and even some homebrewers who go to Belgian, actually try to steal samples of the yeast.

G) No ****?

HB) Yeah it's pretty wild, huh? Hey you wanna try another of my beers, maybe a wheat or a belgian that has a really yeasty character?

G) Yeah sure.

HB hands G a bottle, class and bottle openner

HB)Ok dude, I showed you how to pour to the shoulder of the bottle, so why don't you give it a try?

G) Cool! So will you teach me how to brew sometime?

HB) Yeah, I'm brewing this weekend, come on by Sat. Morning.
Smiles knowing he's converted another one to the 'darkside.'

G) SO can I make a beer like bud lite?

HB smacks G over the head with beer bottle

The End

(Just kidding about the last part) :D


I have very, very very little sediment in the bottom of mine, using the methods I mentioned above.


Remember Yeast is your friend! :mug:
 
I'm starting to think about polishing my beer. What's the deal with filters?
Polishing your beers means removing yeast too (for me).
I filter all my beers, including Weizenbiers.:)
Can I use one and still keep some yeast in suspension?
To do selective filtering requires a filter media of around 7 microns to keep the yeast and any other sediment in the same range behind (not removed).


Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
If you wanted to, you could filter and then force carb in a keg. Then you could bottle using a beer gun or the world famous BMBF. I know there's at least a couple folks on here that do this sorta thing.
 
Revvy wrote:
Even if you do decide to go the expensive route of some sort of filter setup, you are going to do what the BMC manufacturers end up doing, sacrificing flavor for the sake of comsetic clarity...you can't really filter the yeast out in such a way that lets all the complex flavors of your beers come through...so of thoseproteins and other things that give you beer a freshness get filtered out too.

What are the sizes in microns of the flavor compounds?
If filtering removes flavor compounds, what is the percentage (beer flavors only) at the different filter pore sizes?
Since I filter all my beers I don't know what beer flavor compounds I am missing.
My lower limit is 1 micron.

Cheers,
ClaudiusB
 
I'm starting to think about polishing my beer. What's the deal with filters? Can I use one and still keep some yeast in suspension? I'd like to take out all the sediment, etc., but not filter it too finely that the beer doesn't carbonate in the bottle. And any implications if dry hopping (I do mostly DIPAs)?

Let me start by saying, if you want to filter your beer, by all means go for it. Lots of people filter their beer, including big breweries, and it doesn't mean that you are going to end up with tasteless, boring beer. Mostly. As mentioned, using something like a 7 or 5 micron filter will help polish the beer and still leave yeast for bottle conditioning.

My question would be, why do you want to filter the beer? When you say "remove sediment", what are you trying to remove besides yeast? There are other ways in the process to minimize sediment in the final product. Whirlfloc / irish moss in the kettle, crash cool before racking, siphoning the beer above the sediment, etc. What you should be left with is just yeast. These methods may help save you time and money over filtering.

It's certainly not necessary to filter to get really clear beer. Oddly enough this was a hefe, that got a little too clear. :(

2w39r0o.jpg
 
If you wanted to, you could filter and then force carb in a keg. Then you could bottle using a beer gun or the world famous BMBF. I know there's at least a couple folks on here that do this sorta thing.

I think this would be your only logical option. Since to be preactical in the filtering, you will need a kegging set-up....keg, push from one keg to another through filter. Then once in the second keg, force carb and counter pressure filling.

Also, if filter is removing certain flavors, add more of that flavor in your recipe. Many, many commercial breweries filter and I would not say they lack flavor. Sierra Nevada filter and then adds back a very small amount of yeast to bottle condition, this leaves a very thin layer of sediment in the bottle but is not noticeable even if drinking from the bottle, but since you essentially need the kegs to run filter set-up, then force carbonating is just as easy.
 
After starting this thread and reading all the replies I changed my procedure up a little and I now have crystal clear beer with virtually no noticeable sediment in the bottle without filtering :D What I wasn't doing was cold crashing. Makes a huge difference. My procedure now looks something like:

- irish moss in the kettle (the last 10 minutes)
- primary 10 days then cold crash for 3
- transfer to secondary. Add gelatin
- wait 14 days. Cold crash for 3 days.
- transfer to bottling bucket. Pour off first half pint or so until it's clear.
- Bottle. Wait 3 weeks.
- sample bottle goes in fridge; wait 1 week. Open and enjoy.

I also found a podcast (I forget from where) where Vinne, at Russian River, was talking about the process for their Pliny the Elder--a very pale double IPA. He disclosed that they don't filter their beers and that they cold crash and use gelatin in the bright tank. If that's good enough for Vinnie--
 
Ah finally in the last line of the post, gelatin. Cold crash 2-3 days, add gelatin and chill for a few more days will save some time and clear things up.

Time and temperature will clear most any brew. Also, some yeast strains floc much better than others.
 
I always pour 3/4 out of a bottle, swirl, finish pour. I love the yeast, I feel it really adds to the flavor of a beer. Try pouring a good Belgium wheat beer like that except do not pour the yeast, yet leaving enough to swirl and finish off. Try the beer before and after the addition of the yeast. To me there is a big difference and I personally like it better that way.

I am proud to say I have not brewed a beer I can see through.
 
Ah finally in the last line of the post, gelatin. Cold crash 2-3 days, add gelatin and chill for a few more days will save some time and clear things up.

Time and temperature will clear most any brew. Also, some yeast strains floc much better than others.

The great thing about Gelatin is that it can be added to an already naturally conditioned keg of beer.

I've also heard of guys who add gelatin and priming sugars to their kegs at the same time. I've never tried that though.
 
The great thing about Gelatin is that it can be added to an already naturally conditioned keg of beer.

I've also heard of guys who add gelatin and priming sugars to their kegs at the same time. I've never tried that though.

I added gelatin to my beer early in the morning, and bottled that evening.

Now I have a nice layer of yeast and jello sediment at the bottom of the bottles.

Next time, I'm going to add the gelatin a little further ahead, so it has a chance to do its thing before I rack to the bottling bucket. Actually, at this point, I don't like to swirl my bottles and pour the yeast in (this is a Wit) simply because I get globs of gelatin if I do that.
 
If you're looking for a beer that's clear in the glass, try dropping it into the fermenter through a sanitized stainless steel strainer like this http://www.walmart.com/ip/Mainstays-American-Housewares-6-Food-Strainer/15042727

It'll take the boil sludge out and not affect the yeast (since you haven't pitched it yet) I have always done this and gotten nice clear beer in the glass (except hefeweizen) with no carbonation issues. Also, a nice tight little yeast cake in each bottle that doesn't pour out.
 
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