Crazy NUBE for a simple eBIAB setup

Ok, so I get it that most of you on in this forum are experienced with electricity and are more interested in fancy panels and more elaborate systems.

I just want to brew in my basement in the winter in Michigan.

I'm willing to try and get my head wrapped around this because I have worked with a soldering iron before for modifications to microphones and other basic audio applications. AND because I have some friends who can help me out. They just are brewers. So I need help piecing things together.

I have the 15 gal Megapot 1.2
I add this: No Triclover, Weldless Only From brewhardware.com


AND this element:



This controller
http://www.stilldragon.com/diy-controller.html


Then all I need is
*cable
*plug
*someone to wire up a 240 CFGI outlet in the basement?

Your help, suggestions...insight is much appreciated.

Goodness....started this thread while watching two little boys. Should have waited till they went to bed.

Looks good, what do you think of the 15g MegaPot 1.2? I was really close to ordering 3 of them in place of my Blichmanns, but the wife let me spend a bit extra.

I know what you mean about Michigan, I'm over in Southeast Michigan and really ramped up just as it started to get cold... No fun at all brewing in the subzero temps!

hunter306 said:

Looks good, what do you think of the 15g MegaPot 1.2? I was really close to ordering 3 of them in place of my Blichmanns, but the wife let me spend a bit extra.

I know what you mean about Michigan, I'm over in Southeast Michigan and really ramped up just as it started to get cold... No fun at all brewing in the subzero temps!

Click to expand...

I haven't brewed w the 1.2 yet. Just drilled the hole for my 3 piece ball valve. But the look and feel of the pot is solid. I'm very happy. I think I'd feel guilty with anything nicer. When I stepped up to AG a year ago I just borrowed a friend's kettle and have been using it since. So trying hard to not throw too much money at this for gear and to focus on making good beer.

The weather this last five days has been so nuts that I've just been sitting around thinking about beeeeer...and spending money though.

Pretty good start. To attach the element to your MegaPot you will probably need to order the #5 option from Brewhardware (EWL3 - Bare enclosure w/ 1in locknut and o-ring), unless you have the locknut and o-ring laying around. That's what secures the element and seals it against the inside wall of your kettle.

As you noted, you will need some "cord". As your 240v circuit will be new, you'll need to decide whether to go 3-wire or 4-wire. 3-wire is good if all you will ever need to run is 240v. If you might at some point want to run some 120v stuff on the same circuit (like a pump, mash stirrer, fan, whatever), you'll want a 4-wire dryer circuit run. Figure out what you want to do there before buying the power cord for the controller. Either way, it's probably cheapest to buy a dryer cord (3 or 4 wire, depending); get a 10-footer at least.

Then, you'll need some 10/3 SJOOW cable to connect your controller to your element. Think seriously about putting an L6-30 turn-lock plug and connector in between the kettle/element and the controller so you can disconnect them. Be sure to put the male plug on the cord that goes to the element, and the female connector on the cord that goes to the controller.

My eBIAB setup is similar to what you are thinking about - check it out here. There are additional pictures in my gallery - just follow the link in my signature.

pogden said:

Pretty good start. To attach the element to your MegaPot you will probably need to order the #5 option from Brewhardware (EWL3 - Bare enclosure w/ 1in locknut and o-ring), unless you have the locknut and o-ring laying around. That's what secures the element and seals it against the inside wall of your kettle.

As you noted, you will need some "cord". As your 240v circuit will be new, you'll need to decide whether to go 3-wire or 4-wire. 3-wire is good if all you will ever need to run is 240v. If you might at some point want to run some 120v stuff on the same circuit (like a pump, mash stirrer, fan, whatever), you'll want a 4-wire dryer circuit run. Figure out what you want to do there before buying the power cord for the controller. Either way, it's probably cheapest to buy a dryer cord (3 or 4 wire, depending); get a 10-footer at least.

Then, you'll need some 10/3 SJOOW cable to connect your controller to your element. Think seriously about putting an L6-30 turn-lock plug and conntrior in between the kettle/element and the controller so you can disconnect them. Be sure to put the male plug on the cord that goes to the element, and the female connector on the cord that goes to the controller.

My eBIAB setup is similar to what you are thinking about - check it out here. There are additional pictures in my gallery - just follow the link in my signature.

Click to expand...

Supa dupa. Thx. I like the tri clover fitting idea so I can also take the element out put a cap on it and still brew w a burner.

Wife has approved proposed budget! Still Christmas....

Posting these links for reference:

http://www.stilldragon.org/discussion/134/diy-power-controller/p3

This is the .pdf of the stilldragon build instructions.

Here is Bobby's video on the silver solder of the ferrule:

I just ordered:
*the stilldragon DIY controller
*the brewhardware electrical enclosure with tricolver clamps & ferrule to silver solder
*silver solder kit
*tricolver cap (I mainly went tricolver for ease of cleaning and also so that I can cap it and still use the kettle outdoors w/ propane burner).

The wiring of the DIY kit looks easy and fine. I have one friend who is going to help me install the 240 CFGI breaker and another who is going to check my wiring of the controller and possibly help with troubleshooting.

As the nube (noob), I don't know what kind of breaker I want (how many amps and brand) or which element is best, 4500 or 5500?

Suggestions??

Thanks!

look for the camco ULWD 4500 or 5500W heating element.
The breaker needs to be the correct type/brand for your panel, they are not universal. For a single element you need 240v AC at 30amps. If you want to expand your panel and operate two elements at the same time you will need 50amps.

The camco 5500 W element is on its way. So a question about amp rating for the breaker: I've got a friend who is a plumber helping me and we are also getting help from his friend, an electrician. None of us have worked the still dragon controller with a 5500 w element of course. So the electrician is wondering if I'm only ramping up the element for 20 min or so to get a quick boil if I can't just use a 20 amp breaker for that he has available to give me free?

On the other hand the plumber, in terms of cost savings, has a 50 watt gfi breaker w the box. We are running the power from my dryer to a separate box for the gfi.

Thoughts on either of these?

If you go with the 50 amp breaker you are going to need bigger wire all around. I would go with a 30amp gfci and 10/3 Romex for the wire.

Okay. We (an engineer friend and I) wired up the rig and plugged it in for a fail. It was confusing once we started to know exactly what to do with 4 wire when the diagrams form stilldragon were all 3 wire. We decided to just wire the neutral and ground together?

I got this 10/3 wire, a breakout box, and the breaker for free through a friend who knows an electrician and the 10/3 is insanely heavy (not braided). It was very difficult to work with especially in the brewhardware element enclosure...to get the ground set and the wires to each terminal and then screw the two pieces together. The enclosure is made of pretty light material, so I bent it a bit even with my hands while working to shove it all together.

Troubleshooting ahead. Any tips or advice is very welcome.

jb

bannerj said:

It was confusing once we started to know exactly what to do with 4 wire when the diagrams form stilldragon were all 3 wire. We decided to just wire the neutral and ground together?

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Don't do it! It's unsafe. Just leave neutral not connected.

If you have a 50 amp gfi spa panel or similar 4 wire gfi...don't wire neutral and ground together. The neutral from the breaker goes to the neutral bar in the box and the ground goes to ground bar. If you ever need to connect to the neutral (wiring 120v pump or similar) it goes to the load side of the gfi breaker, not direct to the neutral bar. Sounds like your controller is hot, hot ground and no neutral so after you correct the neutral ground connection, fill your pot with water. Don't turn it on without water covering the element. Then turn it on...Otherwise find someone who knows how to use a volt meter to help you...

Brumateur said:

Don't do it! It's unsafe. Just leave neutral not connected.

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The electrician who gave me the 10/3, box and breaker wired up the box. Are you saying not connected in the box as well as in the controller? I assume so.

HUGE QUESTION: does a 220 GFI work if I am not using a 110 leg for any other devices?

Yes, if you don't need a 120V you won't need a neutral. For sole 240v you just need two lives and ground for safety.

With the neutral you just cap it with a wire nut. If you wire it the way that you did it will just trip the GFCI.

I'd recommend use 3 wire cord (its cheaper) and just leave neutral prong not wired in a plug..

I'm confused. My peoe had me convinced a GFI wouldn't work without a neutral. It is a two leg breaker.

No No the GFCI will work just fine with out a neutral going to your box. When you have a 2 pole breaker with GFCI it measures all the current that comes back on both hot legs and the neutral. When you do single phase 240 normally the power comes back to the box on the opposite hot leg because the 2 hot legs are out of phase.

So yes you need to connect the neutral to the breaker so that it will work correctly but you don't need a neutral for the the controller to work.

bannerj said:

I'm confused. My peoe had me convinced a GFI wouldn't work without a neutral. It is a two leg breaker.

Click to expand...

A double-pole GFCI breaker will work just fine in your your applicaton. I googled "how does a double pole gfci breaker work" and found the following decent explanation on the Schneider Electric site (obviously, it's a bit specific to their parts, but you get the idea):


Like CrazyIrishman said, just cap the dangling neutral wire in your controller with with a wire nut (just like in the bottom picture in post #7) and you will be good to go.

Awesome. I titled this thread with "crazy" for a reason. I'm inching thru this learning curve...to be safe. Now I will probly just end up dropping the money for the SJ wire and do it all over again with 3 wire. The Romex was free but a PITA.

thanks for your help and patience with me!

I did a tester on what we had so the gfi and was able to get 8 gal boiling in 32 minutes! Then boiled for an hour to check my boil off. The controller didn't get hot...just warm.

One thing to remember is when talking about home wire you don't count the ground just the conductors. So 3 conductors plus the ground would be 3 wire.

Also you don't want to use solid wire for cords you need to use stranded wire for that.

crazyirishman34 said:

One thing to remember is when talking about home wire you don't count the ground just the conductors. So 3 conductors plus the ground would be 3 wire.

Click to expand...

I have found the terms to be used inconsistently, so it is best to be sure before purchasing.

Maybe at home depot but if you go into a supply house they will give you the right thing if you ask for it properly

Lowe's $2.40 per foot for 10/4 SJ.

We did it! It is all setup. We even did a test to short it to make sure the GFI would blow.

I also tied a piece of voile around the heating element during a test boil to see if it is really true that there would be not burn or scorch and not a mark on it. Unbelievable. I have no idea how that thing works without melting the material.

Will be brewing tomorrow night! Now to study up on recirc systems and pumps. I did run 4 wire so I can add a few things to the box in time.

Would you be able to provide a parts list for everything that you used?

Brewed with it yet?

Sent from my two thumbs

test

bannerj said:

I also tied a piece of voile around the heating element during a test boil to see if it is really true that there would be not burn or scorch and not a mark on it. Unbelievable. I have no idea how that thing works without melting the material.

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Tying a piece of voile to the element and placing a bag of grain on a live element are two very different conditions. If you fire the element with the grain bag in the kettle, best practice is to stir constantly, or lift the bag off the element.

Direct heating any mash needs stirring or movement, or it will scorch. With just water and voile, the water will move and prevent burning, not so with a mash.

Heat on MUST stir!

wilserbrewer said:

Tying a piece of voile to the element and placing a bag of grain on a live element are two very different conditions. If you fire the element with the grain bag in the kettle, best practice is to stir constantly, or lift the bag off the element.

Direct heating any mash needs stirring or movement, or it will scorch. With just water and voile, the water will move and prevent burning, not so with a mash.

Heat on MUST stir!

Click to expand...

Not in my experience. I've done four beers with my ekettle. The bag with grains sits right on the element. No scorching or melting. Some great brews too!

bannerj said:

Not in my experience. I've done four beers with my ekettle. The bag with grains sits right on the element. No scorching or melting. Some great brews too!

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Very interesting, thank you!
What power do you fire the element at with the grain bag sitting on it?
Do you stir much during the mash?
Maybe my fears are not warranted.
Wilser

From what I understand some have had scorching with some elements. I believe that happens with low watt density elements. I have an ultra low watt density element. The deal is I read so much and just made sure I got the ULWD hat most people were recommending. I have a link to it at the beginning of this thread.

I will fire it up half way to goose the temps up when I stir. I do stir every ten or fifteen min or so.

I just brewed tonight. All is well.

bannerj said:

I will fire it up half way to goose the temps up when I stir. I do stir every ten or fifteen min or so.

I just brewed tonight. All is well.

Click to expand...

Ok thanks, so if the element is ON, you are stirring.

The potentiometer is never completely off and I have no kill switch.