Battle Royale: AHS vs Midwest vs NB vs BMW

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ArcaneXor

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I put together a fairly typical sample order and priced it at each of the major online homebrewing stores that are frequently mentioned here on HBT: Austin Homebrew Supplies, Midwest Brewing, Northern Brewer and Brewmasters Warehouse. There are frequently heated debates about the merits of charging flat rate vs. actual shipping costs, and whether merchants who offer flat rate shipping absorb some of the costs by having higher base prices for ingredients and equipment. This experiment should provide a snapshot to answer those questions. Of course, your mileage may vary depending on if you are an extract or all grain brewer, what equipment you are ordering, etc.

Rules:

I included equipment and ingredients a typical partial mash brewer might order for two batches, a Koelsch and a simple Cascade IPA. I chose partial mash because it combines grains and extract, giving a more comprehensive selection of ingredients.
If a merchant doesn't offer a specific item, a substitute is selected.
If a merchant doesn't offer an item at the specified quantity, the next higher available quantity is chosen.
Since Midwest charges actual shipping costs, it was calculated for three zip codes: 90210 (Southern California), 32611 (North Central Florida) and 65738 (Southwest Missouri).

Order components:

110 O2 Bottle Caps (for two batches)
6-gal Better Bottle, plain
Adhesive Thermometer Strip/Fermometer
Wyeast Nutrient, 1 vial
32 oz StarSan
Vinator
5.2 Stabilizer
1 lb Dextrose
Safale-05, 1 satchel
1 Wyeast Koelsch Activator
2 oz German Hallertauer Pellets
1 oz Magnum (U.S. or German) Pellets
3 oz Cascade Pellets
6 lbs Pale/Light/Golden LME
3.2 lbs Pilsen/Extra Light LME
1 lbs Pilsen/Extra Light DME
3.5 lbs Pilsner Malt, crushed
0.5 lbs Vienna Malt, crushed
2.5 lbs US 2-row, crushed
1 lbs Crystal 60, crushed
10 Whirlfloc tablets


Results (assuming no special offers or sales):

1.) Midwest to 65738: $155.01
2.) Midwest to 32611: $160.19
3.) Midwest to 90210: $164.13
4.) Austin Homebrew: $166.67
5.) Northern Brewer: $167.68
6.) Brewmasters Warehouse: $169.69

Discussion:

Midwest, despite not offering flat-rate shipping, wins clearly, suggesting that companies offering flat-rate shipping appear to have higher base prices. The stores offering flat rate shipping were very close in total price, but it should be noted that you actually get a little more base malts at Midwest and more base and Crystal malts at Northern Brewer than specified because they don't allow orders for fractions of a pound (i.e. you'd get 3 lbs of 2-row instead of 2.5 lbs).
Finally, Brewmasters Warehouse has very aggressive grain pricing, making it a better choice for all-grain brewers than this summary reflects. Their extract prices are somewhat higher than at the other stores, explaining why they came in last in this particular comparison.
When taking into account the current 50-State sale at Austin Homebrew and the current 10% off coupon at Brewmasters Warehouse, they come in first and second in the list, beating Midwest. The total for AHS is $150.70 and for BMW is $153.42 with discounts/coupons applied.


Conclusion:

Order from who you are most comfortable with. The prices are reasonably close to each other that proximity to your location, quality of service, freshness of ingredients, and loyalty/past success should be your deciding factors when deciding who to place an order with. If your order components vary significantly from those included in the above list, do your own comparison before drawing conclusions.

Disclaimers:

Prices fluctuate constantly, and this comparison may not be accurate in the future. Other homebrew stores not included in this comparison may offer better deals, as may buying ingredients locally or in bulk from various companies (e.g. hops from HopsDirect).
 
Well... There you have it right there...

Brewing your own to save money on beer makes about as much sense as buying a boat to save money on fish.
 
Okay, so I'm not going to crunch the numbers too much here but at a quick glance, I see about a 14 dollar variance in price covering over 20 inputs. Per item, that only comes to a 70 cent average variance between vendors per item listed. Now, you have to take into account sales tax if applicable; in Texas that's around 8.25%. The median cost listed is $162.35. Multiply that by sales tax, you get taxed $13.40 which covers almost the entire variance between upper and lower data elements.

So, basically it's going to cost you about the same depending on where you live and where you could be taxed if you actually tried ordering this exact list. Value is a perceived measurement, not calculated. Everyone decides if it's "worth it" to them.

Me personally, I know I'll be taxed if I order from AHB but my perceived value is there because I'm supporting an in-state vendor and I usually get my order next-day if it's not a sale. If I were to plan on dropping $160, I'd rather do it in Texas than in any of the 49 lesser states. (J/K) (But not really) :)
 
Well... There you have it right there...

Brewing your own to save money on beer makes about as much sense as buying a boat to save money on fish.

Well, I think you can, but it takes quite a while to compensate for the initial outlay for equipment, upgrades and replacements. Ordering in bulk can make things fairly cheap in the long run compared to commercial craft brew, but this isn't an option for everyone, especially for grain.
 
I tend to agree with Neo on this.....

I don't have a local HBS really so for a lot of items I need to order out..... I order from HomebrewHeaven.com as they are in my state and in doing my own little online price research I found that although they tended to have a little higher overall prices than most of the other HB shops online, that even the higher prices and sales tax left my purchases a bit cheaper due to shipping costs.... I was not aware though at the time of AHS's flat rate shipping and may need to do another price comparison....
 
To me, if you're going to order 20 + items, you should focus on personal history, loyalty and overall service instead of the 14 bucks. But hey, everyone is in a differnt situation.
 
Okay, so I'm not going to crunch the numbers too much here but at a quick glance, I see about a 14 dollar variance in price covering over 20 inputs. Per item, that only comes to a 70 cent average variance between vendors per item listed. Now, you have to take into account sales tax if applicable; in Texas that's around 8.25%. The median cost listed is $162.35. Multiply that by sales tax, you get taxed $13.40 which covers almost the entire variance between upper and lower data elements.

So, basically it's going to cost you about the same depending on where you live and where you could be taxed if you actually tried ordering this exact list. Value is a perceived measurement, not calculated. Everyone decides if it's "worth it" to them.

Me personally, I know I'll be taxed if I order from AHB but my perceived value is there because I'm supporting an in-state vendor and I usually get my order next-day if it's not a sale. If I were to plan on dropping $160, I'd rather do it in Texas than in any of the 49 lesser states. (J/K) (But not really) :)

Thanks for the support. Keep in mind that a majority of the items listed are not taxable items.

I know that Midwest charges full shipping and that is usually a deal killer.

I am working on a complete price restructuring which will be launched in April. Stay tuned.

Forrest
Austin Homebrew Supply
 
To me, if you're going to order 20 + items, you should focus on personal history, loyalty and overall service instead of the 14 bucks. But hey, everyone is in a differnt situation.

agree 100%. $14 on a $150 or so order... not enough to make me jump merchants if I have had good experiences with another.

p.s. awesome sig :rockin:
 
Very nice analysis on a wide ranging order. I will take alook to see where I am different and if I can lower some prices to get things a little closer. I know that our grain pricing is very aggressive, and I can not be that aggressive with everything I sell, as much as I would like to. Some of my costs are going to be higher being a newer store without the volume that some BIG guys have to get price breaks.

We are not as balanced in pricing as I would like, as an all grain brewer would have a harder time beating our pricing than an extract brewer would. Hopefully I will be able to balance that difference a little better than I currently am.

Ed
 
I always compare (who doesn't!) and I find that I have three online homebrew stores that I frequent: Brewmaster's Warehouse, Midwest Supplies and Austin Homebrew. I do partial mash brewing, adding 3lbs. of dry extract to most recipes along with the specialty grain + base malt to equal 5lbs. (which fits my cooler perfectly).

Note about shipping: I find that midwest's real-rate shipping for grain offset's their bulk discounts pretty well. That is, the amount I save buying 5#s adds shipping about equal to the savings.

Here are some of the prices as they matter to me (your situation may vary):
Code:
Rahr Standard 2-Row:
[B]BMW: 1.15 / lb.[/B]
MWS: 1.15 /lb. + discount on larger quantities.
AHS: 1.35 / lb.

Crystal Malts: (other malts matter, but this is a good baseline example)
[B]BMW: 1.35 / lb.[/B]
MWS: 1.35 / lb. + discount on larger quantites.
AHS: 1.75 / lb.

Extra Light Dry Extract (3 lbs.)
BMW: 11.97
[B]MWS: 10.95[/B]
AHS: 11.97

Yeast (add price of 1 pkg nottingham to one pkg US-05)
[B]BMW: 3.15[/B]
MWS: 3.35
AHS: 3.58
I have already bought my hops for the whole year by the pound from various hop suppliers on these forums and online, so those prices are not compared here.

This is without any discounts. Ed at BMW has been great about giving out 10% discounts lately, AHS has the 50 state sale, and Midwest gives 5% off for AHA members.

Overall, the best deal for me is to shop at BMW. I haven't priced out their equipment, since I have all that I need and I just buy ingredients, but their ingredients are the cheapest I've found and they have flat rate shipping. Can't beat that. P.S. Ed is great and I enjoy dealing with him.
 
This topic has been hashed and re-hashed. Do we really need help to know where to shop? Are we 4? And yes Ed, your grain prices rock! I'd be willing to pay more for other items I don't use as much and save on my enormous grain purchases.
 
This topic has been hashed and re-hashed. Do we really need help to know where to shop? Are we 4? And yes Ed, your grain prices rock! I'd be willing to pay more for other items I don't use as much and save on my enormous grain purchases.

Probably not, but we all have our preferences, and everyone thinks that their place to shop is the best. Bottom line: whichever of the shops listed here you chose, you're getting quality homebrew supplies at reasonable prices.

I've been real happy with each place I have ordered from. Most recently, BMW was an excellent experience.
 
This topic has been hashed and re-hashed. Do we really need help to know where to shop? Are we 4? And yes Ed, your grain prices rock! I'd be willing to pay more for other items I don't use as much and save on my enormous grain purchases.

No one is being told where to shop. This helps people like me who are looking for the best price. Its helpful to get a comparison, and if you already have a favorite place then so be it. The topic needs to be brought up every so often, because as someone else said, prices fluctuate.
 
What needs to be pointed out is that this kind of comparison is a tiny snapshot of prices and does not reflect the true cost of doing business with a vendor. For 10 items vendor 1 might be cheaper but when order 25 items, vendor 2 might be cheaper on the overall total cost because the additional 15 items are much cheaper at vendor 2.

If you wish for the best prices, you have to compare every item side by side between vendors and place orders at multiple vendors. This is known in the distribution business as cherry picking. Personally, I don't have the time nor desire to shop that way.
 
I find that some prices differ drastically depending on the vendor, so if you're ordering day to day items they may come out this close, but throw in a Keg kit from Midwest (thanks again MW) or a Barley Crusher from BMW (thanks again Ed)--- and these change things. The other online stores I've looked at dont really compare!

I wanted brew kits with my Kegging setup, so I went with Midwest because they have the best prices on their draft systems.

I wanted a barley crusher with my hard to find grains, so I went with Brewmasters Warehouse because, even though his prices are (understandably) a little more than the BC site, the flat rate shipping is a deal sealer.

When you're looking for specific items, it pays to look a little more closely.
 
Comparing brew stores on a general basis like this is almost useless. Why? It depends on what you order.

Do you buy kits? Grain? Hops? Yeast? Equipment? Books? Flavorings?

#1 I never buy hops at a homebrew store. They do the best they can, but they cannot match HopsDirect or Freshops prices and selection.

#2 I now buy in bulk, I purchased every grain, spice and yeast with ONE buy from ONE vendor with flat rate shipping. So I paid 6.99 to ship all of my items for 2009.

#3 One place will beat others on grain, another on hops, another on yeast, another on LME, another on DME etc.

I get my best pricing across the board at BMW for WHAT I BUY. The dude down the street brewing extract, may not.

These comparisons are nice to see, but don't take the place of someone doing thier research and pricing THIER items through each vendor. When I did, BMW beat the others by a long shot. Thier grain prices were good, thier specialtly malt prices were even better, thier shipping charges were excellent. I bought 20 different malts, yeast, spices, Barley Crusher etc... but no hops... simply because there is no HBS that can offer what the hop farms can, and that is only logical.

Nice comparison, I appreciate anyone pointing out the differences, but you could compare different orders all day long and come up with a different vendor each time.

I dont have to order until 2010... so I dont care if the world falls apart in the meantime (which it looks like it will)

Pol
 
I wasn't even aware of that. Were there any details listed on how to claim the discount on Beertown.org, TechTalk or Zymurgy?

Email them a scan of your AHA card, then note it when you place the order. IME they fulfill the order and refund the 5% on your card.

My most recent order was with midwest.
 
I would love someone to do this for retailers that ship to or are in Canada.... I am having trouble finding anything (other than northern, but shipping it crazy high like %50 of the order value or more)
 
I would love someone to do this for retailers that ship to or are in Canada.... I am having trouble finding anything (other than northern, but shipping it crazy high like %50 of the order value or more)
Austin Homebrew and (I believe) MoreBeer will ship USPS to Canada. That is the only way to get a decent shipping rate - and also not get absolutely killed by brokerage fees (I'm talking to you, UPS :mad:).
 
Well... There you have it right there...

Brewing your own to save money on beer makes about as much sense as buying a boat to save money on fish.

While I disagree, I see your point. There are many ways to save money on brewing, and the initial outlay, even for AG can sometimes be not much. The high cost is dependent on a brewers own personal choice to spend more on fancier equipment in order to save some time or effort.

The costs given in this scenario are for not only equipment that may be purchased only once, but also for individual batch quantitties of grain. Everyone knows that real savings are gained when buying in bulk.

So while I do think that many people choose to overspend on equipment, and many spend more because they don't purchase in bulk, the fact is that you can save a good amount of money and come out way ahead if you are frugal in your equipment purchases and buy your ingredients in bulk if you can.
 
agree 100%. $14 on a $150 or so order... not enough to make me jump merchants if I have had good experiences with another.

I think a 10% saving is actually pretty significant. If you ask Forrest I bet he would agree considering the how the amount of orders jumped when he offered the 10% off state sale.

I think this is far from a good comparison though. This is strictly about pricing which is only part of the equation, which is what many people including Kronin were getting at. To be a real test, I think you would need to email a question about an item in your list. Wait till you get a good answer back, then place the order, and see how long it takes to ship. Then check the order when it comes in to make sure it is correct, and maybe even ask another question about one of the items you received and see how long it takes for them to get back.

I think that would give a better representation of each store. Although you should probably do it 4 or 5 times over the course of a couple months to take into account temporary peaks or lulls in sales or staffing.

Please report on that when you are done. :)
 
Austin Homebrew and (I believe) MoreBeer will ship USPS to Canada. That is the only way to get a decent shipping rate - and also not get absolutely killed by brokerage fees (I'm talking to you, UPS :mad:).


I agree. Austin Homebrew ships USPS to Canada.

Forget Canadian suppliers if you are looking for the full gauntlet of hops and grains to choose from. Who wants to waste a day doing a mix and match in a local suppliers hop fridge with excuses of a hop shortage that has barely materialized on the daily market.
 
I have to say that I think that we are actually in good shape to have so many good online vendors.

I have ordered from Midwest, Northern Brewer, Austin Home Brew and B3. BMW is only a recent discovery for me, so I haven't ordered from there yet, but I probably will at some point.

I think that its unusual to find so many good vendors with competitive prices. Normally in a given market, there are one or two leaders and a bunch of followers. We are lucky in homebrew.



Gedvondur
 
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