Where do you get your HCl aka Muriatic Acid

Rushis said:

I do have a question about your choice of HCl, are you concerned about the sulfate/chloride ratio in your water? The HCl may alter that ratio to a significant degree if you add enough. Naturally, the phosphoric acid would not have this problem, but I have no idea what effect phosphate has on the brewing process (are phosphate levels adjusted in brewing water?).

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Choice is based on local availability, not necessarily preference, and the context of "less is more" combined with previous products used exceeding the taste threshold to achive desired result.

Basically, if I buy 500mL of H3PO4 at 85% it's going to cost me ~$24 plus shipping and Hazard fees. But, if I go get this 1 gallon jug of 30% to 37% HCl from Leslies pools it'll cost me ~$30 with no wait for shipping or fees. That is why I am looking into HCl more closely.

I do appreciate the concerns but again I am used to handling caustics with care. I routinely use a Nitric/Phosphoric blend for cleaning my system. I forget the actual concentrations but it has a concentrated pH of 1.2. Sure, it's not a 37% HCl but it's also not something to handle lightly.

If "less is more" is the mantra here, then the phosphoric acid will be best bang for your buck. Given your water starts at pH 9.5 and you want to reach a pH = 7, then every molecule of phosphoric acid is giving you two equivalents of acid (H+), whereas the HCl can only give one. You have to add the same amount of "acidic equivalents" regardless of the acid.

Comparing the two acid choices and considering the amount of counterion they will leave in solution:
Conc. of Phosphate = 2 x Conc. of Chloride

Convenience usually wins out in these scenario's but having the information can't hurt.

When it comes to chemicals, industrial grade will almost always be the purer product. You can get HCL acid at any hardware store around here; home depot, ace hardware, loews, etc.. The container usually has the chemical ingredients listed. I've bought it a couple of times for various things and it's always been 100% HCL acid of various concentrations. Also, I'm going to go on a small limb here and say that you don't really need too worry too much about safety at the concentrations we're talking about. Obviously don't splash it or drink it but don't have to worry too much.

Rushis said:

Convenience usually wins out in these scenario's but having the information can't hurt.

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Agreed 100%. Which is why this thread has become invaluable to me. If only I could find some H3PO4 local.

opteek said:

When it comes to chemicals, industrial grade will almost always be the purer product.

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Can your provide support for that statement? From Sigma-Aldrich Industrial/Technical grade chemicals typically run form 87% to 98% purity, whereas Reagent grade runs 98%-99%+ and Pharmaceutical grade 99.9%+.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Agreed 100%. Which is why this thread has become invaluable to me. If only I could find some H3PO4 local.

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Mid-America Chemical

Phone: 405-670-0101, 800-749-6332 (toll free)
Fax: 405-670-9270

Might be worth giving them a call if only as a starting point.

What about water conditioner used for aquariums? Just an idea but I don't know what the ingredients are and highly doubt its food grade.

Hugh_Jass said:

Mid-America Chemical

Phone: 405-670-0101, 800-749-6332 (toll free)
Fax: 405-670-9270

Might be worth giving them a call if only as a starting point.

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Thanks for this. Got them on the phone now.

Bopper said:

What about water conditioner used for aquariums? Just an idea but I don't know what the ingredients are and highly doubt its food grade.

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Had looked at those as well as some soil conditioners too. Labels are crap but, I had not searched for the MSDS.

Let me know how it goes. I may be able to help if they can not.

Hugh_Jass said:

Mid-America Chemical

Phone: 405-670-0101, 800-749-6332 (toll free)
Fax: 405-670-9270

Might be worth giving them a call if only as a starting point.

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GilaMinumBeer said:

Thanks for this. Got them on the phone now.

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Score 1 for the Huge Ass!

75% H3PO4 Pharm Grade, 1 Gallon, $33USD and (wait for it)

OPEN TO PUBLIC!

Thanks!

cool. hope it works for you.

Cheers.

You might also consider this since you don't really need a gallon. It says it's food grade
http://www.hydroempire.com/store/product_info.php/products_id/199

Bill

Hugh_Jass said:

cool. hope it works for you.

Cheers.

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Me too brother.

Can't be any worse than the C3H6O3 or the C6H8O7. But, the latter does make way for some nice sugar.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Me too brother.

Can't be any worse than the C3H6O3 or the C6H8O7. But, the latter does make way for some nice sugar.

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On another note, after a visit to MAC I discovered that they are also a less expensive source for bulkier purchases of my other commonly used water additive. Calcium Chloride. An extremely common compound that has been elusive to me in more than 4 oz baggies for ~$3 at LHBS. At MAC I can get 1 pound pelletized (size of BB's) for $6.

thanks again mr applebottom.

GilaMinumBeer said:

Calcium Chloride. At MAC I can get 1 pound pelletized (size of BB's) for $6.

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Ya, that's an excellent source for bulk chemical purchases. I tend to purchase most of my water treatment supplies from Midwest.

Calcium Chloride- 1 lb. $3.95

Granted, the phosphoric acid is more 4x more expensive, but I only go through about 6 oz a year.

others might have said this already, but I don't feel like checking all 6 pages..

but if you know any Chemistry profs or grad students...