Southern Tier Creme Brule stout Clone

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jmilton1987

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Hey guys I was hoping you could help be determine the proportions to make this beer as it is one of my favorite beers of all time. On the Southern Tier website under the description they have this posted:
10.0% abv • 25º plato • 195º L • 22 oz / 1/6 keg
2-row pale malt / dark caramel malt / vanilla bean / lactose sugar / kettle hops: columbus / aroma hops: horizon
Click to expand...
But they do not list the quantities. Can anyone that is better at this then me help to determine how to clone this? Thanks in advance.
 
BeerSmith Recipe Printout - BeerSmith Brewing Software, Recipes, Blog, Wiki and Discussion Forum
Recipe: Stout Clone
Brewer: John Setzler
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.70 gal
Estimated OG: 1.105 SG
Estimated Color: 28.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 86.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
16.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 76.19 %
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.76 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4.76 %
1.00 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 4.76 %
2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00 %] (60 min) Hops 60.9 IBU
1.00 oz Horizon [12.00 %] (30 min) Hops 20.0 IBU
1.00 oz Horizon [12.00 %] (5 min) Hops 5.2 IBU
2.00 lb Milk Sugar (Lactose) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 9.52 %
1 Pkgs Irish Ale (White Labs #WLP004) [Starter 10Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: JMS Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 19.00 lb
----------------------------
JMS Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 23.75 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F


***

just plugging into Beersmith.... but i didn't add the vanilla bean. You would likely add that in the secondary fermenter... this would be my best guess if i wanted to clone based on the info you have...
 
Thank you very much. Have you ever tried this beer before? b/c I highly recommend that you do. Also if you have then is 2.lb lactose going to produce that creamy flavor, adn when do I add it?
 
I'm inexperienced in AG brews. I have only done one so far and I have not tried this particular beer. I just plugged the ingredients you listed into Beersmith to see if I could come up with a recipe that got close to the specs you listed. I don't know much about Lactose either, but I'm guessing it's probably not a source of the creamy flavor as much as it is an additive to boost the alcohol content. It would produce a dryer flavor most likely, but maybe someone else will comment on this post and correct me if I'm wrong. If I were making this, I would probably add the lactose with 5 minutes left in the boil or possibly at flameout. I might also split the 1 lb of roasted barley into .5 lb and .5lb of black patent malt... or possibly even chocolate malt.

My best suggestion is to give it a try. Experimenting is good :)
 
Lactose is sugar made from milk and is non-fermentable. It is added during boiling or in the secondary to sweeten whatever you’re making. I made an extract cocoa porter and added 2 pounds of lactose to the secondary to give it a sweeter taste. It's one of the only sugars that will NOT ferment.

The vanilla bean will go into the secondary. be sure to sanitize it first. I have never added vanilla but I think you can soak it in some vodka to sanitize.

BTW - I loveeeeeee southern tiers crème burlee and will probably try to clone it in the near future. happy experimenting.



CHEERS:mug:
 
Yeah lactose doesn't ferment so it'll stay sweet and won't dry out your beer. I added it at the end of the boil when I used it.
 
Ok so I adjusted the recipe to what hops my LHBS had also is it normal that this big of a grain bill plus hops and a wyeast smak pack and some caps @ $4/lb would cost $73. Man I thought that AG was cheaper than extract but dam* that is alot for 5.5 gal of beer.
BeerSmith Recipe Printout - BeerSmith Brewing Software, Recipes, Blog, Wiki and Discussion Forum
Recipe: Stout Clone
Brewer: John Setzler
Asst Brewer:
Style: Imperial Stout
TYPE: All Grain
Taste: (35.0)

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 6.70 gal
Estimated OG: 1.105 SG
Estimated Color: 28.9 SRM
Estimated IBU: 86.1 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 60 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
16.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 76.19 %
1.00 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 4.76 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4.76 %
1.00 lb Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 4.76 %
2.00 oz Galena [12.50 %] (60 min) Hops
1.00 oz Chinook [11.40 %] (30 min) Hops
1.00 oz Chinook [11.40 %] (5 min) Hops
2.00 lb Milk Sugar (Lactose) (5 min) (0.0 SRM) Sugar 9.52 %
1 Pkgs Irish Ale (Wyeast 1084) [Made a 1 qt starter(my 1st ever) with 2nd runnings and the smack pack areated by me and a bud shaking/stirring whenwe thought of it also only a 2hr starter)
Will rack on 2 vanilla beans in 2ndary


Mash Schedule: JMS Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 19.00 lb
----------------------------
JMS Single Infusion, Medium Body, Batch Sparge
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 23.75 qt of water at 165.9 F 154.0 F
@ 60 min in the tun I added ~2 gal of 212 F water to sparge
Click to expand...

Pics will come after painting someones house tomorrow
 
It's a big grain bill. Getting the alcohol content up to par on a recipe like this takes a lot of grain. You could substitute some sugars at a lower cost but it would result in a dryer and lighter bodied beer.

Soak those vanilla beans in just a little vodka while you are racking to secondary and then toss it all in the secondary... (sanitizes the vanilla beans)
 
I'd say there would already be enough alcohol in the primary by the time you secondary to kill anything nasty on the vanilla beans. Looks like a good recipe. I wouldnt expect to get 75% efficiency with that big of a grain bill. You may have to sparge more and boil longer to acheive that high of gravity. oops I didnt see that you already brewed it. I imagine it will be plenty sweet with the 154 mash temp....hence the name of the recipe.
 
Yeah i forgot to mention that the SG of the second runnigs was 1048 and that was with a 23.75 qt dough in/mash and then then the OG was 1092 but that was with the lactose i will post pics tomorrow but it taseted great and 1st All Grain I decided to go big or go home so hopefully it will pan out. Also if any one can do brewhouse eff. for me or tell me how i would be in debt also it ended with a 5.5 gal final volume. Also i just brewed a vanilla bourbon porter and i dont normally have vodka(i know make joke broke college kid) but i will soak them in bourbon to "sanitize"/flavor.
 
Also i know lactose won't ferment but what about it won't ferment b/c i added it to the boil so that should break the disachride bond and make it two monosachrides but is galactose a nonferntable sugar or glucose?
 
I never thought I'd see creme brule and stout in the same sentence. Where can you buy this in Wisconsin? I'd be interested to try it, and also to hear how your clone tastes.
 
IIRC, the vanilla flavor is pretty massive in that beer. IDK if 2 beans in the secondary are really going to get you there depending.... I'd make some extract with a couple more while this one is fermenting so that you can adjust accordingly at bottling time if you need to ramp up the flavor.
 
Brewt00l will do/purchase real extract.

MeatyPortion I got this at a bar in Bay View on the south side of MKE called Sugar Maple(great beer selection), but I bet the next time I am at discount liquior in South Milwaukee I could find a bottle. Let me tell you it is excellent.

As Promised Pics:
agboil.jpg

Full ~6.7gal boil in two pots
mltj.jpg

outside view of MLT
grainbill.jpg

19# grain bill after dough in
 
i want to THANK YOU for this post. i had never heard of southern teir and of course, couldn't get it in mississippi if i had......looking over their beers and ideas, MAN, i love it....

i'm trying my best to put together an imperial stout w/ vanilla in it.......i've now got more to think about before hand!!

gator
 
ok so I took a grav reading today to check how fermentation is doing. It turned out at 1024 which I would say is right on spec. It tasted sweet but alcoholic. here is a pic of my primary and where the krausen roared up to which my guess is 9.5gal seing that it is a 12 gal fermentor:
dsc00036vuj.jpg
 
This is an extremely polarizing brew as many chats on BA document. I'd love to seem someone pull it off as I think it's just a delicious beer. I'm drinking their Mokah tonight which is supposedly a blend of the Jahva and Choklat. Can't wait.
 
I've got a batch of my attempt sitting in the primary, week 4 I think??? I spoke with a brewer at Southern Tier and have some notes in the link pasted below for what it's worth. He did say to add the vanilla extract at bottling, they use some super concentrated extract from bells company, I had no luck tracking it down. Let me know how it turns out, this was only my second AG so I'm sure I've got tons of room for improvement. I'm adding another pound of lactose (only used one lb, not very sweet) and the vanilla at bottling this weekend.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f163/southern-tier-imperial-creme-brulee-stout-yeast-131774/
 
I'm also interested in hearing how this clone turned out. I just had a bottle of the stout and WOW that was amazing. The aroma is awesome, I really was shocked when I smelled it, it could have sworn it was a real dessert I was smelling.
 
I just bottled it, I know I let it sit in the secondary forever, but FG was 1022 so if i did the calculations correct 9.17%ABV which I am fine with 3 more weeks until I crack a bottle to try so I will let everyone know then.
 
I have cracked only a couple of bottles, and it may not be exactly ST CBS it is quite good. I think it will improve with age. Also I feel it needs a more pronounced vanilla character. Everyone who has had it though loves it.
 
Well i just had another tonight and it needs more time to mellow. It isn't bad it just has a bite to it. I don't think that it is normally only 58 in my place this time of year for the most part. buti will get back to you in a few weeks on it.
 
I have been giving it to friends lately and I have been getting rave reviews from all but one (Sagan on HBT). The only bad review was that it needed to mellow and that the vanilla is cloying right now. I might crack one tonight so I will get back later.
 
so i had one for lunch today with some curry, but it still is has a big bite to it it is not CBS but it is good in its own notes. Still get an apple aroma but have no idea where that came from could be from under pitching I only used one smack pack of 1084 but made a down and dirty starter with some mash run off that I threw in the freezer to cool and added the enlarged pack to it while I boiled and chilled . I think this needs some time still, which is annoying me b/c I am broke and waiting on my tax return to buy high life, but hopefully the keg of old ale in the mini will get carbed with in the next few days.

Also how has everyone else's gone if attempted?
 
IIRC, this beer had a pretty strong burnt sugar flavor. Did the C80 get you there? I figured a clone would have need like 1# or so of C120
 
Any further updates on this? Had an '08 of this last night at a tasting and it was so good. May turn into one of my first experiments into all grain.
 
Had this and it took three of us to finish one bottle. As people have determined for ST's pumpking, in my opinion this has to have extracts to form that strong of scent and cloying flavor. The same place that has the graham cracker has a burnt sugar extract. I would wager that ST uses a combination of available extracts or flavorings to help keep people from nailing their recipe.

And beware people who have "spoke to the brewmaster". A ton of differing advice has come from all who have asked for information.
 
I havent tried the original but I think i want to try this. But i think i'll swap the roasted barley for maybe chocolate malt and make it more of an imperial porter.
 
I would cut back on the lacto sugar by half. It was way to sweet. Did not have the intense punch of st creme brûlée. You are on the right track with the chocolate malt. Let me know how it works out. I would love to try this again.
 
Got this brewing now.
3 gallon batch:
8.75lb 2 row
9 oz each of:
Chocolate malt
Crystal 80l
CaraPils

1oz magnum at 60

I'm gonna add 5oz brown sugar and 11oz lactose once primary dies down a bit then adding Madagascar bourbon vanilla beans.
Pitching Rogue PacMan yeast

1oz magnum at 60

I'm gonna add 5oz brown sugar and 11oz lactose once primary dies down a bit then adding Madagascar bourbon vanilla beans.
Pitching Rogue PacMan yeast

ForumRunner_20131206_022917.jpg
 

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