Jamil's whirlpool chiller, with CFC? - Home Brew Forums
Register Now For Free!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > Jamil's whirlpool chiller, with CFC?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 01-15-2009, 05:43 PM   #1
eccsynd
control freak
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
eccsynd's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Apr 2008
Minnesota
Posts: 172
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts



I love Jamil's Whirlpool immersion chiller idea. From what I gather, the perks are killing two birds with one stone: chilling and whirlpool/trub removal.

Here's my question. Does it have to be an Immersion Chiller? Why couldn't you use a different type of chiller, like a CFC or even plate? I'd like to use a CFC, but recirculate to get the whirlpool effect. The reason that I prefer a CFC is that I'll be using it as HERMs a heat exchanger as well, so one less piece of equipment means less to clean, and possibly money savings.

Seems like most people run the hot wort through the CFC and directly into the fermentor. Wouldn't recirculation be beneficial, to get a whirlpool going? Am I missing something?
__________________
BCS-460 Temperature Controller - Interactive web based interface, data logging, and programmable control rules.
http://www.embeddedcc.com
Become an ECC fan on Facebook

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 05:46 PM   #2
Boerderij_Kabouter
 
Boerderij_Kabouter's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Dec 2007
Oconomowoc, Wisconsin
Posts: 7,757
Liked 148 Times on 120 Posts


Yes your idea would work well and you would receive the added benefit of chilling the full wort volume faster. This gives you more retention of volatile hop compounds near the end of the boil for better aroma and flavor.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 08:50 PM   #3
944play
 
944play's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jul 2008
Santa Rosa, CA
Posts: 2,726
Liked 46 Times on 41 Posts


I remember Jon Plise mentioning that he recirculates with a CFC.
__________________
OD: ?
Pri:-
Keg: Simple AIPA (2-row, Chinook, Cascade, WLP090)

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 08:52 PM   #4
FlyGuy
 
FlyGuy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Jan 2007
Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 3,605
Liked 183 Times on 53 Posts


I made one too, but still haven't brewed with it. I am hoping it will chill ridiculously fast.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 11:17 PM   #5
bakins
 
bakins's Avatar
Recipes 
 
May 2008
West Georgia
Posts: 728
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts


I have a plate chiller and recirculate back into the kettle. This seems like it would cool it quicker, but in reality, I timed it each way and it was basically the same. I suppose someone who knows more about thermodynamics could explain it, but it kinda makes sense bcs you are using the same amount of chiller water*. I do a hybrid now - I recirculate and capture this chill water for cleaning - usually gets to just under 100 or so. Then I use my MLT to recirculate ice water through the chiller as I drain into fermenter, I trade out frozen water bottles in it. This usually gets me into the 60's in about 15 minutes total chill time.

*this may be because a plate chiller is more efficient than an immersion chiller anyway??? (ie maximum surface area)

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-15-2009, 11:49 PM   #6
Germey
 
Germey's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Sep 2007
Rancho Bernardo, CA
Posts: 699
Liked 3 Times on 3 Posts


I am still working out some of the kinks, but here is what I did with my last batch.
I have a 1/2" CFC that can move a huge amount of hot wort at full pump speed, but I have to restrict the flow to get maximum chilling (Full discussion to follow someday when I get around to it)
I ran it full speed through the CFC into my HLT and let the whirlpool form there. That got the full 10 gallons down to about 85 deg in less than 5 min.
I got an OK whirlpool but need to build a little jet (a la Jamil) to get a really good one.
I then ran it through the CFC again into the two carboys at 65 deg. I think with some tweaking I can get the whole chilling process down to 15-20 minutes for a 10 gallon batch and have the whirlpool. That would include a non-DMS-forming break in the middle to let the cone form.
Cheers

 
Reply With Quote
Old 10-30-2009, 08:12 PM   #7
wuertele
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
 
wuertele's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Oct 2009
Menlo Park
Posts: 133
Liked 1 Times on 1 Posts


I have a plate chiller and tried recirculating back into the kettle with a pump. This process takes MUCH LONGER (and far more cooling water) than pumping straight into the fermenter. When I pump straight from the boil to the fermenter without recirculating, I can cool the entire boil in less than five minutes. When I recirculate, it takes over 30 minutes!

I would have expected recirculation to take slightly longer, for two reasons: 1) the boil kettle has to be cooled along with the wort when recirculating, but not when going straight. 2) the pump has a greater head to work against when recirculating than when going to the fermenter. But both of these reasons should not account for a 7x increase in cooling time!

I don't know what I'm doing wrong here. I tried it with plain water to remove the hops and sugars from the equation, and I got the exact same result. I have a Thrumometer on the output of the plate chiller, so I know that the boiling liquid is being cooled to 65F from the start. The plate chiller is not even being used to its full potential: I can tell because most of the chiller is not even hot. When the chiller is being taxed (i.e. because the cooling water's temperature is too high), the chiller gets hot. But in my whirlpool I don't even have to turn my tap up very far in order to get the boiling liquid down to 65F.

I suspect that my recirculation pump might be underpowered. I am certainly not getting enough whirlpool action from it to create a cone in the fermenter. I have to manually stir in order to get that.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-01-2009, 12:16 AM   #8
JKoravos
Recipes 
 
Jul 2009
Chelmsford, MA
Posts: 1,203
Liked 74 Times on 55 Posts


Until recently I recirc'ed with a CFC. It works just fine. The major downside, IMO, is that you're considerably restricting the flowrate of the pump forcing it through 25+ feet of tubing, which in turn reduces your whirlpool speed, which also reduces the effectiveness of the whirlpool. It's still effective enough to get a decent trub cone in my setup.

I'm considering getting a significantly more powerful pump just for whirlpooling. If you can really get that wort moving for a few minutes, the trub cone is impressive.

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2011, 04:20 PM   #9
czucker
Recipes 
 
Jun 2008
Brooklyn, New York
Posts: 87


This may be a dumb question, but why couldn't you just get the whirlpool going with with your pump and then once your trub has settled, chill with your cfc as you normally do?

 
Reply With Quote
Old 01-03-2011, 05:01 PM   #10
Catt22
Recipes 
 
Jan 2009
Posts: 4,998
Liked 70 Times on 63 Posts


I pump through a CFC back to the kettle in a continuous loop and I have no trouble at all getting a good whirlpool going. My DIY CFC presents very little restriction to the flow as it is made from 20 ft of 1/2" ID rigid pipe. There seems to be some confusion about the whirlpool term. IMO, there are two distinct objectives with this method. One would be to cool the entire volume of wort as rapidly as possible and the second to form a debris cone. The chilling procedure requires that the wort be continuously and well mixed for optimum performance. Once chilled, you only need to stop pumping and allow the debris to settle. It's best to allow 15-30 minutes for this to happen. My point is that whirlpooling for chilling purposes is really just keeping the wort mixing while whirlpooling for debris cone formation is a separate operation and the debris won't drop out completely until the whirlpool has slowed to a stop.

 
Reply With Quote
Reply
Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Whirlpool Immersion Chiller rcrabb22 General Techniques 7 11-19-2009 01:02 PM
Whirlpool chiller design WillWyn Chillers & Stir Plates 2 11-07-2009 02:29 PM
CFC chiller and whirlpool DeepSea Equipment/Sanitation 6 06-06-2009 06:01 AM
Jamil's recirculating chiller EdWort Equipment/Sanitation 5 05-31-2009 08:40 PM
Jamil's Whirlpool method - moving wort to fermenter stoutaholic General Techniques 4 04-17-2009 02:18 AM


Forum Jump