English Barleywine John's Red (English Barleywine)

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Pelikan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2008
Messages
901
Reaction score
15
Location
Q Continuum
Recipe Type
Partial Mash
Yeast
White Labs WLP007
Yeast Starter
1 liter, stir-plate
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter
N/A
Batch Size (Gallons)
5.25
Original Gravity
1.090
Final Gravity
1.020
Boiling Time (Minutes)
60
IBU
~35
Color
~15 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
21 days @ 64-68*F
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
21 days @ 64-68*F
Additional Fermentation
N/A
Tasting Notes
A malty barleywine in the English tradition.
John's Red

England_COA1.png


~English Barleywine~

Click here for extended tasting notes.​

There's a bit of a story with this one, so bear with me for a moment...

...a few years back, we had a local micro that served a brew called Ed's Red. It was my father's favorite beer for a long time. Then quite unexpectedly, the place shut down, taking with it my father's supply.

When I started getting into brewing, one of the first things my father asked for was a clone of the Ed's Red. It took quite a while to develop the recipe and work it into the rotation, but I'm glad the time has finally arrived...

...taking what I know about my father's tastes, coupled with what he tells me about Ed's Red from memory, John's Red was born. I hope you enjoy it as much as we do.

Partial Mash

Boil Volume: 6.5 Gallons
Final Volume: 5.25 gallons (before trub/transfer loss)

~70% Mash Efficiency, adjust as required.

9 lb Maris Otter
4 lb Light DME

9 oz Crystal 40L
8 oz Golden Naked Oats
8 oz CaraPils
4 oz Flaked Oats
2 oz Chocolate
1 oz Roasted Barley

1 oz Nugget (12% whole/leaf) @ 60 min

Notes

Bitterness: As brewed, this one was somewhere in the area of 40 IBU. For this OG, one gets a balanced beer with perhaps a slight malt emphasis. 35 IBU will push that malt emphasis a bit more, and 30 will give you a decidedly malty brew.

Mash at 154*F for 60 minutes. Add DME with about 10 minutes left.

With ultra-OG brews, I've gotten into the habit of gently rousing the bottles once a week for the first three weeks, to ensure the yeast fulfill their yeasty duties. Your call on this one.
 
It is very cool that you are recreating this for your father. That is awesome.

I'm little nervous that 1 oz of Nugget is not going to be enough AAs for a 1.090 beer, though.

I look forward to your tasting notes.
 
My father has noted on many occasions that he flatly does not like highly hopped beers. When I was developing this one, I was looking all over the place for a style that fit the description he was giving me for Ed's Red, and also matched up with his tastes.

The English barleywine fit in there perfectly, in the sense that it's a heavy ABV brew that doesn't necessarily emphasize hops. Indeed, one of his favorite off the shelf brews is Chimay Blue, which is something like 25ish IBU and about 9% ABV.

With this one, the OG of the boil is going to be somewhere in the 40's or 50's, depending upon your mash efficiency (ie: not that high). With a high AA hop like Nugget, that will give you 35-40 IBU+ when the late extract additions are factored in.

35-40 IBU is flirting with the bottom of the range for the style, but I didn't want to push it any further than that considering my father's dislike for bitterness. As it stands, I don't think this amount of bitterness will be insufficient.

As an aside, I choose Nugget because it's reputed to have a "smooth" bitterness.
 
1.020 is actually on the low end for the style. There needs to be some degree of residual sweetness, both from unfermented sugar and caramel malt, to balance a heavy, high ABV brew such as this. A few extremely heavy barleywines even finish up in the 30s.

The BJCP lists FG as 1.018-1.030+ for the style, whereas the GABF lists it as 1.024-1.032.

Now that I'm looking at the style guide, it lists the following for hops:
BJCP = 35-70 IBU; GABF = 40-70

At 35-40 IBU, I'm again flirting with the bottom of the range, but all things considered I think it's going to turn out quite well.
 
John_sRed1.jpg


John_sRed2.jpg

This beer came out fantastic. The sample in question was in the secondary for 3 weeks, in bottles for 5 weeks, and in the fridge for just shy of a week -- so 6-9 weeks old at the time of sampling, depending upon when you start the clock.

Appearance -- Coppery/reddish, particularly when held to the light. Not quite as "in your face" red as I was hoping; I might tool around with the roasted-grain addition the next time I brew it, but this one came out so good, I dunno. Either way, one-two finger head (depending upon pour) with flawless retention, perfect lacing. Some haze present (as you can probably see from the photos), but not inappropriate for the style.
4 of 5 (deduction for color)

Smell -- Malty, with some dark fruit/caramel/honey. Mouth-watering.
4.5 of 5

Taste -- Complex and malty, but also well balanced. Probably came out somewhere in the neighborhood of 40 IBU. Very good. Alcohol is completely masked at normal serving temps, aside from the gentle warming. Some hints of fruity esters. Sweetness from the caramel additions. Also a slight spiciness, which I believe results from a combination of grain/hops/yeast/alcohol.

As it warms (temp-wise), the alcohol becomes more pronounced, but even at straight room temp (yes, I let a bit get that warm), it's never sharp or overpowering, or even as present as you'd think it should be. It just keeps getting more and more complex as it warms, with no apparent ceiling. Good at all temps, but probably best in the 50-60*F range.
4.5 of 5

Mouthfeel -- Perfect for the style. Some carbonation, some bitterness from the hops. A unique, spicy sensation (for lack of a better descriptor), perhaps due to a synergistic effect (grain/hops/yeast/alcohol).
5 of 5

Drinkability -- Flat out dangerous in this regard. One can easily put down two or three of these (or more), and get hit with an unexpected strong buzz. In terms of potency, this is like two beers in one, but you'll swear it's not above average ABV (until you're all mellowed out 15 minutes later).
5 of 5

Everyone who's tried this, loves it. Even non-beer drinkers like it. I've gotten "smooth," "awesome," "wow," and my favorite, "C'mon man, cut the BS, where did you buy this?". It's very Belgian-esq, but also distinctly Englishy (and 100% within the English Barleywine style). I'm very proud of this one, and will be saving a few bottles for the next competition that comes around.

23 of 25 -- 92%
 
I am really looking forward to giving this a try. I'll be getting started on all-grain pretty soon here, and would really like to have a barleywine to drink by the winter. This looks very well-suited for my tastes and, as far as barleywines go, seems very reasonable in terms of OG and aging period (about 12 weeks grain to glass?). Are there any crazy tricks that I should know about, or is this a feasible brew for someone relatively new to all-grain?
 
This is a very straight forward brew, and is indeed technically a partial mash due to the use of DME, so it shouldn't be too hard. I think it might make a good stepping stone brew. Make sure you get a brewing refractometer, though, to gauge mash efficiency (so you know exactly what quantity of DME to add to hit your desired OG). Pretty much a required item, IMHO. $35 on eBay, worth every cent. (Bear in mind that once the brew has fermented, you'll have to use a traditional hydrometer to read FG, as the alcohol throws off a refracto.)

This isn't to say one needs to be obsessive about starting and finishing gravities, within reason. Indeed, I see a lot of new brewers make stupid mistakes because they want to hit an OG or SG perfectly spot on, and think they're doomed to failure if they're off a bit. Sometimes it happens, sometimes you're a point off, sometimes you're ten points off. Just roll with it. If the recipe is good enough to begin with, you'll always get good beer within a certain (and reasonable) OG/FG/IBU, etc, tolerance.

Now that said, about the beer itself: I've served it to quite a few people, and every single one has said they liked it. Even BMC drinkers. The flavors/aromas are not offensive to the average palate, but by the same token are good enough and present enough for a seasoned beer drinker to appreciate it. It starts off kind of spicy/Belgian-esq when young (due, perhaps, to esters/phenolics/etc), then smooths and rounds into a more traditionally English profile. In other words, it's good both young and old, for different reasons.

That said, and as you've noted, I've only gone 12 weeks with this batch, to this point, so it could (and probably will) change even more as it advances. I have a few bottles set down that I'm specifically saving up for advanced-age testing.
 
Also, would Notty dry packets work for this?

I'm a firm believer in the fact that specific strains of yeast add very distinctive qualities to the brews that are made from them. These are admittedly undertones for the most part (when we're talking about specific sub-types, that is; English in this case).

The short of it, will Notty work? Sure. Will the beer be as good, better, or worse compared to 007? That I can't say, as for as long as I've been brewing, I've never used Notty (or any dry for that matter...nothing against it, just haven't). From reading descriptions of the two, they sound quite close, but I know for sure they're not identical, or even close to identical strains. So there's that.

But will you get bad beer from using Notty? Nah...odds are excellent that the beer will be good. Just as with OG/FG, any good recipe will have some reasonable tolerance for variables. And if I were to recommend a strain to someone as a backup, Notty would probably be the one.
 
Anyone want to take a whirl at modifying this recipe for (A) All Grain vs. Partial ands (B) a 10 Gallon run? I have a feeling that I'll be making this next weekend...

Thanks,
Adam
 
It's fairly easy to convert to all grain. Just sub in an appropriate amount of Maris Otter for the DME -- note that it's not pound for pound...DME is more concentrated by weight in terms of fermentables. I don't know the exactly conversion off the top of my head, but can do it for you if necessary.

For 10 gallons, I'm fairly certain all you'd have to do is double everything. Again, though, I can look into it for you if need be.
 
Thanks for posting this recipe. I think I will take a stab at this for my first barley wine.

As for AG conversion, my rough conversion came out to about 7# of maris otter for the DME replacement.

Just curious, do you get any fig/raisin dried fruit flavors from this one? I would like to have this in my english barleywine. Either way your sounds great!
 
Brewed this last June and it is fantastic. I even have several wine drinkers (my wife and friends wives) that want this as an after dinner drink. have the grain in and will be brewing another batch in 2 weeks once the pale mild is done so that I can use the yeast cake. love having one every few weeks and enjoy the changes that it undergoes. as Pelikan said it is good both young and aged
 
Glad you guys are liking this one. It has a surprising amount of range, from young to old, with very different characters.
 
Bottling this shortly...did you add any more yeast at bottling time? I had this in primary for about 6 weeks, then in a secondary for about 4 months.
 
Sorry for the delayed response...I don't think you'll need to add more yeast at bottling, but you can pitch a fresh vial of 007 if you want to be safe.

...I'm gearing up to brew this one again pretty soon.
 
This might be a newbie question, but what's "Golden Naked Oats"??

Also, if I wanted to make this using extracts instead of partial grain, what would be the best route/options? I'm looking to make an English Barleywine soon (maybe this weekend) so figuring this out is up there on my list.
 
...I don't think you'll need to add more yeast at bottling, but you can pitch a fresh vial of 007 if you want to be safe.

...I'm gearing up to brew this one again pretty soon.

Pelikan
Again thank you for this recipe I have brewed it twice (June 2009 and June 2010). I am now told it is to be a yearly beer in rotation by my wife and friends, and I need to change the brew time to after the new year to give more time for aging. looking at brewing it twice in 2011 so that I can store a good amount for long term aging. first batch I did I scaled to 2.5 gallons and now realize this was way to little.

both times I pitched onto a yeast cake of 007 and did not need to add any yeast for bottling. second batch ended up with great efficiency and had a 9.5+ % beer.
 
This is one of my favorites. We've been nursing our way through the first batch and I'm planning on making another when this one runs out. Thanks for a great recipe!
 
Do you think 50IBU would be too high? I like barleywines and am excited to try this (with Magnum hops instead of Nugget - also known for their smooth bittering) and don't mind a more hoppy barleywine.
 
Just bought the ingredients for this, but had to substitute for Wyeast London Ale as the LHBS didn't have WLP007. Excited to brew my first barleywine! I'm definitely more of a malt forward guy so this sounds really good to me. I'll post back with the results. May be awhile though because I plan on bulk aging in a secondary and perhaps have it ready for around Thanksgiving or Christmas time. Cheers!
 
Did my fourth "yearly" batch this weekend. looking forward TO IT AGAIN. LOVE TO TRY IT AT 1 MONTH THEN 3 THEN SIX. (sorry)!
have 8 four yr old bottles left that I am saving.
 
Well I brewed this 3 days ago on Tuesday, came up a little short on my OG, I believe this was due to my grain bill being so large and only getting 70% efficiency instead of the 80%+ I usually get doing BIAB. I decided to add 1 lb. of table sugar since I mashed around 154F and thought that the sugar could help my OG but also thin the beer out just a little.

UnderThePorchBrewing - Have you modified the recipe at all? Just wondering if you had any good results doing anything different. I have a bunch of extra Citra hops, I was thinking of perhaps dry hopping a gallon with this to see if it turns out good or not.
 
Well I brewed this 3 days ago on Tuesday, came up a little short on my OG, I believe this was due to my grain bill being so large and only getting 70% efficiency instead of the 80%+ I usually get doing BIAB. I decided to add 1 lb. of table sugar since I mashed around 154F and thought that the sugar could help my OG but also thin the beer out just a little.

UnderThePorchBrewing - Have you modified the recipe at all? Just wondering if you had any good results doing anything different. I have a bunch of extra Citra hops, I was thinking of perhaps dry hopping a gallon with this to see if it turns out good or not.

No I have not changed anything. My second batch was very finely ground AG and I had very high efficiency ended up at 9.5% ABV and forgot the crystal. it is still mellowing but after two years is very good. (I like it, my wife and friends prefer the original). so not a change but the mistakes did create a different beer. the efficiency loss may be due to the high OG usually I see a loss of efficiency of 5% or slightly more due to the higher OG above 1.060 read somewhere this does occur but not sure where I read it or if it is true

this years batch is 3 weeks in the primary and will be transferring it very soon again no changes. just bought a chest freezer and the controller to control fermentation temps and have just about completed my electric
brewpot to do 2.5 and 3 gallon batches so then I can experiment a little but with it being good just the way it is no need to change.

I never had citra so can not comment on how it would add. would definately make it more of an American barleywine than english worth the one gallon try
Ben
 
I want to brew this but is there anything that I could possible replace the golden naked oats with my home brew store doesn't have it.
 
Golden Naked Oats is a pretty unique product in my experience. If you can't track it down it may be worth it to place a small online order, or you can experiment with lightly toasted flaked oats.
 
Pelikan said:
Golden Naked Oats is a pretty unique product in my experience. If you can't track it down it may be worth it to place a small online order, or you can experiment with lightly toasted flaked oats.

Just didn't want to have to pay shipping for one little thing but I guess I'll just by the whole grain bill online. Thanks
 
I transferred the beer when it went down to 1.022, but that was only 7 days. What kind of effect will this have on the beer compared to the recipe that says to keep the beer for 21 days in the primary?
I am still planning on keeping it in the secondary for another 5 weeks though.
 
hethacker12 said:
I transferred the beer when it went down to 1.022, but that was only 7 days. What kind of effect will this have on the beer compared to the recipe that says to keep the beer for 21 days in the primary?
I am still planning on keeping it in the secondary for another 5 weeks though.

The current thinking is to not use a secondary. An extended time on the yeast allows the yeast to clean up the fermentation byproducts. there are no offsetting benefits from getting off the yeast any off the yeast. I secondary only lagers and sours. I've kept beers in primary for as long as 6 weeks if I didn't have a free keg.

That all said, don't worry, you'll be fine.
 
I transferred the beer when it went down to 1.022, but that was only 7 days. What kind of effect will this have on the beer compared to the recipe that says to keep the beer for 21 days in the primary?
I am still planning on keeping it in the secondary for another 5 weeks though.

7 days is not quite ideal but secondary for a month or so should be ok then bottle. there should be enough yeast in suspension with only a week to finish off the beer well. if there is a layer of yeast in the secondary after a few days it is ok. I usually do 2 weeks then the secondary for a month. when bottling stir up some yeast and transfer to the bottling bucket. will be a long wait but worth it. enjoy.

My 2012 batch is doing great, is 6 months in bottles and tastes close to the 2011 which is at its peak and phenomenol. this is a fantastic beer age 12 to 18 months.
 
A buddy and i made this about a month ago. numbers came in a little low, but not too far off. racked to secodary last week, sample tasted great! cant wait for this to be ready.
what is the typical age you are all drinking this at?
 
A buddy and i made this about a month ago. numbers came in a little low, but not too far off. racked to secodary last week, sample tasted great! cant wait for this to be ready.
what is the typical age you are all drinking this at?

6 months is usually when I drink it. it is young but very good. always save some to age. I have some (4 to 6)from each yearly batch in June '09, '10, '11, '12, and am waiting until the Holidays next year ('13) so have 5 yrs worth to sample a flight with friends
 
for this I usually add the DME at the beginning of the boil to the boil pot. DME is already converted no need to mash
 
for this I usually add the DME at the beginning of the boil to the boil pot. DME is already converted no need to mash

Ah ok.

The original recipe said "Mash at 154*F for 60 minutes. Add DME with about 10 minutes left."

I thought that meant add it with 10 mins left in the mash.
 

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