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Old 01-09-2009, 06:32 PM   #1
BOBTHEukBREWER
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Default time in primary - a uk professional brewer's technique

Hi all, I spent this morning talking to the owner of a 360 gallon brewery. I asked about time in primary. He waits until fermentation is underway, then removes 4 gallons and ferments this out at 27 deg C, to determine ACTUAL final gravity. The main brew is fermented at 18-20 deg C until it gets to 0.002 above the FG, it is then racked off the yeast into the chiller. So fermentation ON the yeast is 7 to 10 days only. I know that the perceived wisdom on this forum is to ferment out and leave on the yeast for 14 to 21 days. I myself ferment on yeast until I judge the end point for my bottling technique, this is usually only 4 to 6 days. The owner has agreed to taste some of my beers and critique them, I will share this with the forum in due course. Happy Brewing New year to everybody!

By the way, he pitches 10 kg of yeast sludge from previous brew into 360 gallons of wort, this is 6 oz per 6 gallons, I pitch 1 to 1.5 lbs, so I would appear to be over pitching.....


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Old 01-09-2009, 06:38 PM   #2
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Bob your setting a bad example for the n00bs. Im sure a brewery has time constraints that home brewers don't have to worry about.


An interesting topic anyway.


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Old 01-09-2009, 06:44 PM   #3
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Great info Bob! Mind naming the brewery? Maybe I'll know if their beer is any good.

This is similar to the "fast-ferment test" mentioned by Kai(ser).
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Old 01-09-2009, 06:58 PM   #4
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I will ask if they mind me quoting them. I will also ask if time constraints eg maximising profitabilty is an issue. The brewery has won many awards such as best beer (I am not saying which type) in class in whole of UK. I personally would make the best beer I could, because there are 500 other breweries competing with you. Time would not be an issue.
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:10 PM   #5
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Most commercial breweries turn out their beer really fast...gee, look at Budweiser they turn their beers over in what 14 days as well?

I can see several reasons why their beer would come out fast, repitching on highly active yeast for one thing...And they probably even filter before bottling right, and/or force carb as well?

So that negates the need for any long term clearing and/or bottle conditioning time as well...or they ship only in kegs..again reduced time frame...

And do they pasturize? Which kills the yeast...So the lifespan/timeframe again is NOT as necessary.

A lot of things that work for the commercial big boys don't translate well to the homebrewer...Remember they actually do have to worry about things like autolysis, hotside aeration, and oxydation, that are boogiemen to us, on a smaller scale, not trying to consistantly reproduce something on a commercial basis in a time frame that suits the marketplace not the tastebuds of the consumers.

So yes it's interesting information, but I agree with Wildwest, (especially at this time of year with so many n00bs watching) it does send a bad and or confusing example to them.
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:12 PM   #6
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In the recent BYO, Stone said they also brew a small batch of the beer as a test. I think they raise the temp and put it on a stirplate for 2-3 days. Since actual flavor isn't a concern, they can fast ferment it this way to verify the potential FG of each batch.
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:13 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wildwest450 View Post
Bob your setting a bad example for the n00bs. Im sure a brewery has time constraints that home brewers don't have to worry about.


An interesting topic anyway.
That is the biggest problem I see with the conventional wisdom surrounding homebrew. A lot of it comes from professional brewing, because that's where the money for research is, but professional brewers have a different goal than homebrewers. They need to make money, we need to make great beer. Moving beer out of the larger primary into conditioning tanks will allow more beer to flow through the pipeline, allowing for more revenue.

Homebrewers don't need to concern themselves with as much turnover as possible, so we should take the time to let the beer do its thing.
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:22 PM   #8
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A lot of of commercial brewers I know are looking for a 5 - 7 day ferment. Some 3 - 4 days

They have an advantage. They know the exact process inside out and are doing much lager batches. They have a lot more experience.
You only need to look at my 8 day mild (drinking in 8 days!) to see what can be done.

BUT IT IS NOT FOR THE INEXPERIENCED unless they don't mind the chance of making crappy beer.
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Old 01-09-2009, 07:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarleyWater View Post
That is the biggest problem I see with the conventional wisdom surrounding homebrew. A lot of it comes from professional brewing, because that's where the money for research is, but professional brewers have a different goal than homebrewers. They need to make money, we need to make great beer. Moving beer out of the larger primary into conditioning tanks will allow more beer to flow through the pipeline, allowing for more revenue.

Homebrewers don't need to concern themselves with as much turnover as possible, so we should take the time to let the beer do its thing.
I'm going to quote you on this, my friend after you graduate from brewschool....Don't forget your roots!!!!!

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Old 01-09-2009, 07:32 PM   #10
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I suspect we're speaking about low-gravity cask ales where really fresh yeast character is desired and relished. Yeast health is of monumental importance, as well. The vast majority of British ales are intended to be consumed quite young.

The Basic Brewing podcast from the 1st of year has some conversation about just this very topic, as well as typical British brewery techniques- including milling grain in the very same room where their open fermenters are, which flies in the face of conventional wisdom regarding the potential for Lactobacillus infections.

http://cdn4.libsyn.com/basicbrewing/...01-09casey.mp3


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