Coldbreak Brewing Giveaway - Open to All!

Home Brew Forums > Home Brewing Beer > Equipment/Sanitation > How sanitary is sanitary?
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-14-2008, 03:06 AM   #1
jldc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jldc's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 662
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts

Default How sanitary is sanitary?

This might be better in the Beginners section, but anyway:

I currently have my first beer in primary, so I am a rank beginner, and I'm struggling with trying to figure out how sanitary is good enough. I have read that you should wash sanitizing solution (dilute bleach in my case) out of bottles, tubes, etc with hot tap water. This seems to say that hot tap water is "good enough" to come in contact with my brew. I have also read that you should boil and cool water to place in the carboy to dilute/cool my two gallon wort boil. This seems to say that hot tap water is not "good enough." What gives?

Also, I have heard that baking at 340 degrees for 60 min will sterilize, and I'm tempted to do this with my bottles before bottling. If I bring the bottles up to 340 over 30-45 min, keep them there for an hour and then cool overnight without opening the oven door, will this work to give me good, acceptably sanitized bottles the next day with a low risk of thermal shock/bottle breakage?

Thanks


jldc is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2008, 03:20 AM   #2
McKBrew
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
McKBrew's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Hayden, Idaho
Posts: 8,291
Liked 34 Times on 30 Posts
Likes Given: 8

Default

Sanitation is important, but not super obsessive sanitation. Practice the same procedures you would for safe food handling and you'll be OK. If you are close to a homebrew supply, I'd seriously consider investing in a homebrewing sanitizer like Star San. It's no-rinse and less worry than bleach.


__________________
Make Beer, Not War.
McKBrew is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2008, 04:18 AM   #3
cdburg
Feedback Score: 1 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 358
Liked 7 Times on 5 Posts
Likes Given: 4

Default

Baking the bottles at 340 degrees for 60 minutes would make me a bit nervous. If there are any flaws in the bottles, you could have messy and/or dangerous situation. I've used the rinse and heated dry cycle on the dishwasher (do not add soap) to sanitize bottles. It heats the bottles enough to sanitize, but not to the point where it's dangerous.

In terms of sanitizing, hot water and soap will work for cleaning. You would then need to sanitize also. To be really safe, any water that comes in contact with equipment that will touch your beer post-boil or that will be added to dilute your beer should be boiled. Some people don't boil their diluting water, and they may never have problems. Technically though, it can infect the beer.

If you are using a sanitizer that needs to be rinsed off (e.g. bleach) you do need to use hot water. If you're being super-anal, that could present a risk, since the water isn't boiled. As McKBrew said, a no-rinse sanitizer like Starsan is best, because you don't face that risk.
cdburg is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2008, 06:24 AM   #4
giligson
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Vancouver Area - Canada
Posts: 756
Liked 4 Times on 4 Posts
Likes Given: 1

Default

you know this can become a really philosophical topic.
The bottom line is that sanitation is a numbers game.
The object of the game is to get your yeast numbers high enough so that it outcompetes all other organisms for food and then after that keep the number of organisms that can actually live in beer (not wort) down to so few that your brew will go off from aging (oxidation etc) before they even get a foothold.

So with that in mind we want to kill as many offensive organisms as possible and not really worry too much about organisms that may be hardy in certain circumstances (C. Botulinum is one of the hardiest organisms on the planet and is used as a benchmark in medical sanitation but it doesn't live worth a damn in beer).

By using a common sense approach that considers the points of maximal probable contamination we can focus our efforts at sanitation to just those areas that require the most attention.

.....rant ends

buy a no rinse sanitizer and wash your bottles in the hot cycle of your dishwasher.
giligson is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2008, 02:15 PM   #5
menschmaschine
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Delaware
Posts: 3,278
Liked 36 Times on 29 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdburg View Post
To be really safe, any water that comes in contact with equipment that will touch your beer post-boil or that will be added to dilute your beer should be boiled. Some people don't boil their diluting water, and they may never have problems. Technically though, it can infect the beer.
+1. Tap water should be boiled. It's not free (enough) of microbes and may not infect you, but may infect the beer. Think about your faucet aerator. That can build up a bio-film over time and grow bacteria and fungi which can end up in your water... again, maybe it won't make you sick, but it might make your beer sick. Using unboiled tap water is like eating at a Buffet restaurant or 24-hour diner... it's a risk.
__________________
END TRANSMISSION
menschmaschine is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2008, 02:20 PM   #6
Revvy
Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Revvy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: "Detroitish" Michigan
Posts: 40,812
Liked 2868 Times on 1696 Posts
Likes Given: 3510

Default

THis thread has some great info on sanitizers on it...http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f39/sani...uestion-54932/

There's even a link to some uber-gheeky documant of food sanitization...

For example
Quote:
The official definition (Association of Official Analytical Chemists) of sanitizing for food product contact surfaces is a process which reduces the contamination level by 99.999% (5 logs) in 30 sec.

Idophor and Starsan both are FDA approved. They kill just about everything we need to worry about in food handling in less than a minute contact time, depending on the concentration.
__________________
Like my snazzy new avatar? Get Sons of Zymurgy swag, here, and brew with the best.

Revvy's one of the cool reverends. He has a Harley and a t-shirt that says on the back "If you can read this, the bitch was Raptured. - Madman

I gotta tell ya, just between us girls, that Revvy is HOT. Very tall, gorgeous grey hair and a terrific smile. He's very good looking in person, with a charismatic personality... he drives like a ****ing maniac! - YooperBrew
Revvy is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2008, 02:57 PM   #7
Anthony_Lopez
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Groton, MA
Posts: 1,693
Liked 23 Times on 9 Posts
Likes Given: 2

Default

+1 for star san... It's an excellent sanitizer, it's no rinse, it lasts in storage, and it even acts as a yeast nutrient. I love the stuff!
__________________
I'd rather have a bottle in front of me, than a frontal lobotomy.
--Tom Waits

You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline - it helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer.
--Frank Zappa

My Cheap and Easy Stirplate
Anthony_Lopez is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2008, 05:12 PM   #8
wilserbrewer
BIAB Expert Tailor
HBT_SPONSOR.png
Vendor Ads 
Feedback Score: 10 reviews
 
wilserbrewer's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Jersey Shore, Jersey
Posts: 8,082
Liked 790 Times on 633 Posts
Likes Given: 15

Default

+2 for star san, I only mix up a couple of quarts at a time and even a small bottle lasts a looong time! Don't quote me but I think the req'd contact time is only like 30 seconds. No rinse is the only wat to go IMO.

Beware though, be careful of countertops, if left on formica, the star san will etch a stain!
wilserbrewer is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2008, 05:44 PM   #9
Orfy
For the love of beer!
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
Orfy's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Cheshire, England
Posts: 11,853
Liked 76 Times on 56 Posts
Likes Given: 30

Default

Don't forget it's only beer, not surgery. All you are trying to do is tip the odds in your favour of winning the battle.
You'll never kill all the microbastids but if you kill enough the yeasty beasties will win.
__________________
GET THE GOBLIN
Have a beer on me.
Orfy is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2008, 07:05 PM   #10
jldc
HBT_LIFETIMESUPPORTER.png
Feedback Score: 0 reviews
 
jldc's Avatar
Recipes 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 662
Liked 6 Times on 6 Posts

Default

Thanks for all the helpful replies. I think star san sounds like the way to go.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orfy View Post
Don't forget it's only beer, not surgery. All you are trying to do is tip the odds in your favour of winning the battle.
You'll never kill all the microbastids but if you kill enough the yeasty beasties will win.
This may be part of the problem. I am a surgeon, and I think my nature is overkill in the area of sanitation.


jldc is offline
 
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Testing Sanitary Technique brundage Equipment/Sanitation 20 04-22-2009 06:00 PM
sanitary air filter killian Equipment/Sanitation 7 02-21-2009 10:42 PM
Is tap water sanitary? jklotz Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 17 11-15-2008 03:30 PM
Is Dry Hopping Sanitary? cee3 General Techniques 8 09-25-2008 04:06 PM
Sanitary Tap Water? brett.melnikoff Beginners Beer Brewing Forum 7 06-27-2008 05:01 PM


Forum Jump

Newest Threads

LATEST SPONSOR DEALS