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Old 10-31-2008, 10:44 PM   #21
Austinhomebrew
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Who is this AHS you speak of?

We have our own version of PBW called Ultimate Brewery Wash. If you use PBW you will like it and you will save money. Click Here

If you use Oxiclean, please, please make sure you rinse really really well to remove the soda ash.

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Old 07-20-2009, 03:34 PM   #22
Jim Five Star
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IrregularPulse View Post
I've never had any problems with oxiclean not rinsing easy. 3 rinses with hot water.
One hot water rinse will be sufficient to fully clear PBW or any other "free-rinsing" cleaner. When you say you have no problem by rinsing it three times you are really saying you have no problem with water usage or your time spent rinsing a cleaner which is NOT free-rinsing even though you have to rinse it THREE TIMES!

By the way, up the temp on your rinsewater to as hot as your wash and your rinse becomes more effective.


Reason: typo

 
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Old 07-20-2009, 04:19 PM   #23
Jim Five Star
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[QUOTE=climateboy;926139]Hi, all.

I'm putting in a big order at Austin Homebrew Supplies, and I need a good cleaned for a bunch of grimy champagne bottles I'm picking up next week from Craigslist. AHS does not sell oxyclean, which I hear will be best for this sort of cleaning job...is PBW the same thing or just as good? What should I use?

****************

There are similarities between the two and a reason why PBW is not found on the laundry soap isle at your local retailer (although it DOES do a GREAT job there and occasionally finds its way into our washing machine at home, too!)

Both are oxygenated Alkali cleaners. PBW, carrying numerous US Patents, set the stage by being a breakthrough product harnessing Oxygen as a solvent without being corrosive. Many other products now mimic that capacity but PBW was initially DESIGNED for a major U.S. brewery and goes much farther than just being an Oxygenated alkali.

In short, as PBW was built for the brewer, it has a package of chelators and surfactants chosen for that role. Chelation addresses mineral soiling and surfactants (detergents) also help the solution break down various soils. Products like the one mentioned and many others either have NO chelation or a very generic one not built for brewery chemistry, resulting in limited cleaning, especially over time. Yes, this can make PBW a tad more pricey, or does it? The recommended dilution for the home brewer is 2 oz per 5 gallons; spending about $1.75 to clean my gear with the finest alkali wash around seems reasonable to me (AND its biodegradable and yes, safe on aluminum and plastics as well as SS).

Lastly, do your own research, oh mighty and wise home brewers. You may well find what Denny found, a home brewer I spoke with at the AHA NHC in Oakland in June whom had also been using a 'less oxpensive item' such as the one mentioned here:

"Jim encouraged me to try cleaning stuff with PBW that had been cleaned in ***** previously. I did that and have to tell you I am amazed with the results. One beer line I had with heavy beerstone I no longer used. Repeated ***** soaks hadn't cleaned it nor had other cleaners I tried. A 2-hour PBW soak and the line was completely clean and is now back in use! I also recleaned buckets I use for fermenters, which I had already been cleaning with ***** and looked clean to me, and I was amazed to see how brown the water was after cleaning."

Amazing what the right chelation and surfactants can do, eh?


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Old 07-20-2009, 06:57 PM   #24
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Thanks for the input Jim. I've alwasy found PBW to be a superior product. I've used both Oxy Free and PBW. My fermenters come clean a lot quicker with PBW. I've had a few infections because of OxyClean not fully getting rid of the beerstone left from fermentation.

 
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:20 PM   #25
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Oxi can be rinsed with hot water and then a dash of starsan to counter the alkali. At least that is what I think I heard.

PBW is better than OXI in my experience, but if you keep up on the cleaning, you probably won't need it.
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Old 07-20-2009, 07:45 PM   #26
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Whether it's brewing or cooking, I love the 'designing recipes' part, I love brew/cook part...but I hate the cleanup! So PBW, while not cheap, is worth it to me.

The only reason I ever tried Starsan in the first place was purely to reduce all the rinsing I had to do with bleach. It was never because I couldn't get things sanitized...it was 100% about the rinsing.
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Old 12-07-2011, 03:19 AM   #27
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Quote:
"Jim Five Star
Junior Member"

"Products like the one mentioned and many others either have NO chelation or a very generic one not built for brewery chemistry"

this stinks of pure guerilla marketing by the makers of PBW. why wouldn’t he just mention the name of the product? Because advertisers are taught to be vague when they could be sued!

Quote:
"Yes, this can make PBW a tad more pricey, or does it?"
He even has a TESTIMONIAL! from an actual
Quote:
"mighty and wise home brewer"
(just like us!)
he asterisked out the other products name...


for the record I am finding this because I was going to soak my kegs in no name generic oxyclean overnight and also wanted to know if it will damage them.

Anyways I just wanted to point out that this thread was clearly astroturfed. I am going to try 1 keg first and see how it goes.

 
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Old 12-07-2011, 03:44 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Evan! View Post
No, PBW is different---it's a caustic rather than an oxygen based cleaner. If you put an oxyclean solution into an aluminum kettle, it will turn dark gray from oxidation; pbw won't.
I thought the same, but it's not a caustic and it is an oxygen-based cleaner, ala oxyclean, but with an addition of Sodium metasilicate. This is directly from their site, and the MSDS does not list the percarbonate, probably due to proprietary blends. But the MSDS does list the Na metasilicate.

An Alkaline Non-caustic, Environmentally and User friendly CIP cleaner.

P.B.W. uses active oxygen to penetrate carbon or protein soils and is not effected by hard water

 
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Old 12-07-2011, 04:28 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reelale View Post
I thought the same, but it's not a caustic and it is an oxygen-based cleaner, ala oxyclean, but with an addition of Sodium metasilicate. This is directly from their site, and the MSDS does not list the percarbonate, probably due to proprietary blends. But the MSDS does list the Na metasilicate.

An Alkaline Non-caustic, Environmentally and User friendly CIP cleaner.

P.B.W. uses active oxygen to penetrate carbon or protein soils and is not effected by hard water
Soooo, you're saying we could mix Na metasilicate with oxyclean and make our own PBW like cleaner?
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Old 12-07-2011, 11:28 AM   #30
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I've never used the UBC. It seems obvious to me that Oxi-clean is not as specifically designed for what we do as is PBW. I use PBW because 1), it's very effective, 2) our well water is loaded with dissolved minerals that will leave a white film on bottles, etc. if I use Oxi-clean, and 3) I spend enough money on brewing that I'm not going to attempt to cheap out on my cleaner.
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